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russian armor

Assault Grenadiers

26 Sep 2013, 20:56 PM
#21
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

They just changed the cost of assault grenadiers to 200 manpower and 50 munitions. That should cut down on the spam and force you to make a choice.


Yeah and i choose to piss right of back to grens with lmg's. AG are no longer useful as the unit is not worth 50 ammo . also you cannot maintain momentum any longer. and for the record these guys where useful support for PG's in mid game but you cannot spam them.
27 Sep 2013, 02:55 AM
#22
avatar of MazerRackham

Posts: 73

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Sep 2013, 05:52 AMGTTV
Can people seriously just calm down? The patch went out like a day ago and people are already screaming 'OP'. That just makes you look like a bunch of whiney children who don't want to adapt your already determined strat to come up with a counter.

The point in a counter is that you force the enemy to do something else. This is what RTS is all about. It is NOT soviets having to run around after Germans - the exact same can be said about Germans because BOTH players have to adapt and counter what the other faction is doing. Come up with a counter to counter what they are doing, they will try to counter your counter - and the cycle continues. It may seem like you have to 'run around what the other players do' if you have only ever played one faction. After having extensive experience with both you start to realise both factions have to adapt and change their strategy in accordance to what your opponent is doing.

This thread actually started off legitimately before a bunch of soviet crybaby's joined in saying this unit is OP. There are counters to this unit in both initial soviet tiers, as has been said in this thread. (M3 + flamer or Maxims). Once you get 1 CP (which really doesn't take long) you can counter pretty hard with shock troops or guards.

If you dominate with this strat, just think it maybe (just maybe) be because these units are brand new and people haven't figured out how to deal with them yet.

^this

While I haven't played against assault grens much this is my two cents.

Your best counter are shocks. I still think many soviet player do not know how to use shocks correctly. You want to make sure, if you are having a problem with AGrens, that you keep at least 2 conscript squads small length ahead of your shock troops. Once the game "locks" the target onto your conscripts you move them into cover. You can either flank or run in guns blazing with your shock troops. You do this until they get some veterancy. Once they get Vet 1-2 they FUCKING TEAR UP EVERYTHING. It also helps to have that +3% accuracy and reduced suppression bulletins.

If you happen to be using the new shock doctrine with "For The Motherland," I've noticed the speed bonus stacks on top of "oorah," allowing you to cover insane amounts of distance really quickly. If you have vet 3 cons and the enemy is trying to do something sneaky pop you can pop the speed boosties and flank. Once your vetted shock troops arrive its game over.
28 Sep 2013, 06:00 AM
#23
avatar of bigchunk1

Posts: 135

Penal Battalions make a mess of them.
2 Oct 2013, 15:30 PM
#24
avatar of Poomaster09

Posts: 2

I could have just played guys that didn't know what they were doing, but 2 conscripts+ Molotov utterly destroyed the agrens. I almost get excited seeing them on the map.
2 Oct 2013, 16:23 PM
#25
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

^this

While I haven't played against assault grens much this is my two cents.

Your best counter are shocks. I still think many soviet player do not know how to use shocks correctly.

You quoted a post from the day when assgren were OP, and there was no counter let alone Shocks.
Soviet players do know how to use Shocks since I see them swarming the field every time I make ass grens (and in a lot of other games btw). You don't have to be a genious to use them, frankly, there's not much tactic involved.
Some players go even so berserk with shocks that they force me to get an Ostwind...
Anyway assgrens are pretty much interchangeable with pgrens right now, useuful for quick call ins or if you are floating munis and want to save some mp, or do pgrens work if you skip T2
3 Oct 2013, 05:57 AM
#26
avatar of simonp2

Posts: 94

I think they're a bit underwhelming now after the munition cost was added.
I have to think hard on whether i'd not rather have a lmg grenadier squad anyway. The grenade barrage may have a place as an early building clearer but nothing earthshaking.
I don't really use them much now.
3 Oct 2013, 08:42 AM
#27
avatar of Neffarion

Posts: 461 | Subs: 1

they said it was temporary hotfix for the early game, so it they might change the costs of it
its rediculous
50 ammo for the squad and 60 for the grenades. 110 ammo just for 1 squad. ill rather take a upgraded gren and use rifle grenade for 25 ammo
3 Oct 2013, 09:29 AM
#28
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

yeah the nade is not that good when moving into mid game, being lots of low damage explosions it might drain some health but rarely kills multiple units, plus grens die so easily you will rarely manage to throw more than 3
14 Oct 2013, 21:32 PM
#29
avatar of JackTheRooster

Posts: 32

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2013, 23:15 PMRubbers


this is sad and literally makes me sick.

why did they fuck this game so hard and why do they hate soviets so much? Soviets have always been a fly by the seat of your pants faction where really you have to just react to the german player, not make your own strategy. And now its even worse, pigeonholded into 1 strategy or just playing to counter the german and eventually lose either way. I refuse to even play soviet anymore after this new patch. Makes me sick and I doubt ill be playing much longer.


Rubbers, why do you complain so much?
20 Oct 2013, 11:15 AM
#30
avatar of Kalismist

Posts: 46

People say do this, do that, but the truth is that most soviet 1on1 strategies involves going conscripts first. Are you all saying that you have to go tier 1 as your first action to stand up against assault grens? Right, so what if they do something else?

Give us a way to fight assault grens with conscripts, especially early game where you really have no other options available. Camping in buildings don't work since they'll cut you off and have the map by the time you can actually start capping anything your self. And hey there is a p4...
20 Oct 2013, 11:38 AM
#31
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952

I'm no expert, but here's what I do vs AGren openings-
Skipping molotovs and healing and going for a maxim or two after the first three or four conscripts seems to work for me. Stick a flamer on your engineer to degarrison, and get AT nades + AT gun to drive off the flamer halftrack, maybe get a mortar on a map like Semois or Kharkov. From there it's just T34/KV8 with Shocks or more AT guns if necessary, or if I'm behind I skip tech and wait for the IS2 to swing the game around.

I find maxims good vs AGrens just because their grenade is very poor value compared to the grenadier rifle-nade, with a short range, very unreliable damage, and high cost.

Here's a replay against AGrens: http://www.coh2.org/replays/9411/versus-albus-and-the-assault-grenadiers
There were plenty of buildings to hide in on this map though, so it probably made it a lot easier early on to hold ground.
22 Oct 2013, 19:00 PM
#32
avatar of JackTheRooster

Posts: 32


I don't use shocks that often so I haven't tried these yet, but I did attempt to fight them with ppsh conscripts.
My vet one conscripts with ppsh upgrade only killed one squad member of the, unvetted, grens (point blanc and both in yellow cover) while taking 4 losses themselves before I retreated. This only happened once though so it could have been one of those rare unlucky breaks you sometimes get.



Please read across the forums before asking this question. Other than that, I'm happy to help and I noticed you must be a new player:) That said, the way to deal with assgrens is to keep your conscripts at range and throw molotovs close to your conscripts where the assgrens are predicted to move up. Also, assgrens are useless against houses. If they throw nades, just jump out and jump back in the building. An M3 halftrack can also put in work since the assgrens have no AT capabilities.
12 Nov 2013, 11:18 AM
#33
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

you can avoid them rather easily they cot 320 manpower so they aren't cheap and as the game goes on you get tech there usefulness goes away pretty fast. (I fell victim to that the first time using them.)

if the assault gens are the ones that cost 320 manpower. so don't let them get close to your infantry (conscripts) use half tracks or other things besides conscripts to face them. basically don't let them pick off your squads with there mp40s or paralyse nades.

this is my experience from using ive never faced them and it was in a 2v2.
28 Feb 2014, 19:14 PM
#34
avatar of A7ibaba

Posts: 2

I'm playing in 1vs1 and you must avoid them all the time because they literally eat your greens in few seconds. If you notice hes using them, instantly go for t1 truck and flame pios because there is no other way. But if he's smart enough to use regular granadiers with assault you can leave the game because you will probably lost all the map. Totally unbalanced units with no sense.
28 Feb 2014, 19:33 PM
#35
avatar of WilliG

Posts: 157

I have noticed this as well - they are really powerful when used in conjunction with regular grens. The problem I have is there not been many viable 1v1 strategies while playing as German other than going mech assault.
28 Feb 2014, 20:08 PM
#36
avatar of Albus

Posts: 125

Snipers counter Assault Grens.
Well microed conscripts supported by good molotov play counter Assault Grens.
Maxims counter Assault Grens
Penals counter Assault Grens
Shocktroopers counter Assault Grens
Guards with DPs counter Assault Grens
Tanks counter Assault Grens
M3s counter Assault Grens
There isn't much which doesn't counter Assault Grens :P
3 Mar 2014, 13:22 PM
#37
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Well said Albus, makes me laugh when Soviets tell me they can't counter Assault Grenadiers. Micro is the counter to Assault Grenadiers, but Penals, MG's, Shocks are all the hard counters. And if the Soviet player goes for PPSh's, then even basic Conscripts are on counter-level! (Ironic I might add, considering Germans started issuing more MP 40's to counter the Russian's SMG heavy Shock Armies)

Assault Grenadiers don't really get any sort of bite until they reach Vet 2, then suddenly they can punch Shock Troops in the face! :P
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