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Firefly and the tulip

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GhostTX
2 Oct 2015, 20:24 PM
#61
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2015, 20:26 PMThatRabidPotato
First of all, because .95 isn't the same as 1.0, being that one still gives you a chance to save the tank, however small. Secondly, the Firefly, while overpriced for its shitty reload, is still way cheaper than an Elefant or Jagdtiger. It simply is not the same thing and should not have the same role.

Also, stop commenting on the Brits like you have any idea how to play them, Mr. Only USF.

LMAO, what are you, 12? All these drones that think you can't comment on game play of other sides because your playercard says you haven't played them. Your an expert with 18 games?

I suppose you don't comment on sports, politics and other such things that you have no actual (or little) involvement in? Grow up, junior.

I've played plenty of games with Brits as allies (more than 18) and see all the nonsense that happens and it's after effects. I'd say I can comment.

And yes, the .95 is near the same since you rarely see any big tank without other AT nearby. You don't have a guarantee you'll get it back. Firefly has weak armor, so it's definitely not the equivalent as the big tanks. You'll see Axis lumber in the big tanks on their own without much fear of losing it at first contact. In fact, it'll be leading the charge most often, or smarter in the rear for the long shot. Can't do that with the Firefly so much.
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malecite
2 Oct 2015, 21:11 PM
#62
avatar of malecite

Posts: 139

I've had no trouble using the FireFly. 2 of them alpha striked a KT yesterday and it died instantly to 2 penetrating shots and a follow up of double tulips.

I really don't see the problem, put a churchill or a comet in front and it's a freaking death machine.
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Katitof
2 Oct 2015, 21:32 PM
#63
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2015, 21:11 PMmalecite
I've had no trouble using the FireFly. 2 of them alpha striked a KT yesterday and it died instantly to 2 penetrating shots and a follow up of double tulips.

I really don't see the problem, put a churchill or a comet in front and it's a freaking death machine.

Well, 450+ worth of fuel and 300 muni better evaporate singular tank, no matter how big it is.

But that won't happen outside of 4v4 grindfests.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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malecite
2 Oct 2015, 22:28 PM
#64
avatar of malecite

Posts: 139

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2015, 21:32 PMKatitof

Well, 450+ worth of fuel and 300 muni better evaporate singular tank, no matter how big it is.

But that won't happen outside of 4v4 grindfests.


Well a 10s reload is pretty high, but then again it has crazy penetration and offers the tulip rockets as a fast KO mechanic.

If you want to turn it into another generic tank destroyer thats one idea, but it sure as hell shouldn't have an 8s reload if its going to maintain the tulips, penetration, and insane vet bonsus.

I like the fact that its a unique unit with a unique manner of play style, if you want an overall awesome anti everything tank the brits can always just take the comet. The firefly functions like a tank sniper right now and I think that's pretty neat.
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Firesparks
2 Oct 2015, 22:36 PM
#65
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2015, 22:28 PMmalecite


Well a 10s reload is pretty high, but then again it has crazy penetration and offers the tulip rockets as a fast KO mechanic.

If you want to turn it into another generic tank destroyer thats one idea, but it sure as hell shouldn't have an 8s reload if its going to maintain the tulips, penetration, and insane vet bonsus.

I like the fact that its a unique unit with a unique manner of play style, if you want an overall awesome anti everything tank the brits can always just take the comet. The firefly functions like a tank sniper right now and I think that's pretty neat.


no denying the tulips are extremely powerful, but at the same time it's also expensive. Less so in a 4v4 but in a 1v1 and 2v2 it's an definite luxury.

Right now the firefly is "unique" because it's a gimmick tank. It's a gimmick tank that rely on its alpha strike to be useful.

It's not a competitive tank because the resource investment required to use its gimmick is prohibitive outside of 3v3 or 4v4.


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UGBEAR
3 Oct 2015, 13:56 PM
#66
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

Firefly only 20 fuel short than a panther, definitely not worth its price without the tulip, the tulip rocket is the thing gimped the firefly, either remove it, or nerf the tulip damage(reduce munition costs) but buff the firefly to make it worth its price, and firefly is way too slow as a medium
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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nee
4 Oct 2015, 09:00 AM
#67
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Tulip ability can also be targeted to ground, so it also makes for a straightline makeshift artillery that can wipe weapon teams. IMO that makes the Firefly more than just a TD.

Personally at the least, it should be an upgrade that competes with tank commander- you can upgrade to either, but never both.
I do like the doctrinal idea, it could come in as a regular Sherman with the HE/AP switch, plus the Tulip for a late-game all-round fast-but-fragile option.
The manual reload is also a good idea worth considering, at least then you have to retreat to safety and not fight to reload the weapon...or just make the tulip cooldown longer, like the AVRE.
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Katitof
4 Oct 2015, 09:15 AM
#68
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 09:00 AMnee
Tulip ability can also be targeted to ground, so it also makes for a straightline makeshift artillery that can wipe weapon teams. IMO that makes the Firefly more than just a TD.


No, it can't since alpha.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Chocoboknight88
4 Oct 2015, 10:37 AM
#69
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393

It can somewhat but not even close to reliable. The weapon team would have to be at max range to hit it or the rockets will fly over it.
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Butcher
4 Oct 2015, 10:44 AM
#70
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Firefly is strange. The Tulip is blatantly overpowered. Killing StuGs with one salvo is bullshit, even for the ammo cost. Hardly dodgeable with the clumsy pathing of all turretless vehicles.

The vehicle itself does fire too slow.

However a vehicle with a turret, 60 range and over 160 damage should not be able to fire fast. Thus the damage needs to go down if the ROF is going to be faster.
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Kubelecer
4 Oct 2015, 11:39 AM
#71
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 10:44 AMButcher

However a vehicle with a turret, 60 range and over 160 damage should not be able to fire fast. Thus the damage needs to go down if the ROF is going to be faster.


What's a jackson
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2016, 11:57 AMJohnnyB
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.

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Butcher
4 Oct 2015, 11:52 AM
#72
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 11:39 AMKubelecer


What's a jackson
I should have added medium armor. The Jackson is balanced, because it goes down with 3 hits. Simply giving the Brits a Jackson with more armor + tulips would be wrong, even for a higher price.
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malecite
4 Oct 2015, 14:30 PM
#73
avatar of malecite

Posts: 139

After playing probably 8 matches with the British yesterday I have to say I have revised my opinion about the Firefly. I tried using it without the Tulips and well... its pretty lackluster.

-The turret rotation is indeed way too slow when combined with the sluggish nature of the tank.
-The ROF is fine when you have it sitting nicely behind another tank, but on its own it fails to actually scare anything away. Instead people just drive at the tank and its basically helpless.
-Way too expensive for what it does, better off just investing in another Churchhill.

So I would agree about ditching the tulips, making them cheaper, or just buffing the tank and making the Tulips a doctrinal thing.
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Blalord
4 Oct 2015, 20:38 PM
#74
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 14:30 PMmalecite
After playing probably 8 matches with the British yesterday I have to say I have revised my opinion about the Firefly. I tried using it without the Tulips and well... its pretty lackluster.

-The turret rotation is indeed way too slow when combined with the sluggish nature of the tank.
-The ROF is fine when you have it sitting nicely behind another tank, but on its own it fails to actually scare anything away. Instead people just drive at the tank and its basically helpless.
-Way too expensive for what it does, better off just investing in another Churchhill.

So I would agree about ditching the tulips, making them cheaper, or just buffing the tank and making the Tulips a doctrinal thing.


This is why he have tulips, to one shot a medium tank
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Firesparks
4 Oct 2015, 20:47 PM
#75
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 20:38 PMBlalord


This is why he have tulips, to one shot a medium tank

a unit costing 440mp 155 fuel shouldn't be dependent on a upgrade that cost 50 munition using an ability that cost 100 munition. Unless you're floating in munition it's simply impractical.

just nerf the tulip and slash the price on the firefly.


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nee
5 Oct 2015, 11:24 AM
#76
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 09:15 AMKatitof


No, it can't since alpha.
Just tried it in a match with no mods, it can indeed be targeted at anything, including ambient buildings. Bug due to latest patch perhaps?
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Katitof
5 Oct 2015, 13:14 PM
#77
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 11:24 AMnee
Just tried it in a match with no mods, it can indeed be targeted at anything, including ambient buildings. Bug due to latest patch perhaps?


Just because you can click on something, doesn't mean the missiles will stop at it.

They stop only in contact with shot blockers and armor, will pass through anything else, ignoring it.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Iron Emperor
5 Oct 2015, 13:17 PM
#78
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

It's Crap and OP all together for some reason Kappa
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spectre645
5 Oct 2015, 16:15 PM
#79
avatar of spectre645

Posts: 90

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 20:47 PMFiresparks

a unit costing 440mp 155 fuel shouldn't be dependent on a upgrade that cost 50 munition using an ability that cost 100 munition. Unless you're floating in munition it's simply impractical.

just nerf the tulip and slash the price on the firefly.


Why not? The upgrade is something that works as intended every time, unlike a lot of abilities in this game like zis3 barrage. The firefly performs its job admirably at the very apparent hindrance of it being slow and cumbersome in the mobility department. Couple this with the fact that you need vet for it really shine and tulips upgrade should be enopugh time for the axis player to figure out a way to kill it.

panzerschrecks, paks, rakets and a tank on the flank kill this thing easily as it does not output enough dps to kill most vehicles when they get close. coupled with the fact that the turret moves like it's in tar, this tank has apparent weaknesses. Most people here keep fighting this tank on its own terms and wonder why they lose so brutally.
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Napalm
5 Oct 2015, 16:23 PM
#80
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

The alpha damage is the true issue using the rockets. Things get really interesting in larger team games because of this. Given the addition of target tables I hope this can be scaled a bit mattering on what the rockets are firing at.

The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.


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