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Soviet Late Game and T-34/76

28 Jul 2015, 20:26 PM
#1
avatar of SageOfTheSix

Posts: 1048

Permanently Banned
I know there have been lots of posts about the T-34/76, and I don't propose a buff, just a change in role. Hear me out.

The T-34/76 needs to have it's role changed to that of mainly an AI semi-durable tank. Think Command tank w/out the buff.

Why?
1) Ostheer stock infantry > soviet stock infantry late game. Geramn SNiper beast if micro well ( see Aimstrong/Simon game for proof). This equates to OStheer having INFANTRY SUPERIORTY late game.

2) The t-70, while a great AI tank, just isn't durable enough late game ( with medium armor, pak walls/pumas, etc ) to really be viable as your mainline AI tank in anything more than a defense/support role.

3) By giving the T-34/76 an AI buff( and perhaps a small fuel increase) you give soviets a chance to combat superior german infantry late game that can survive more than 2 pak shots (Ie 1 round of shots from standard 2-3 pak endgame).

4) it currently takes about 30secs for a still T-34/76 to wipe 1 MG42. Unacceptable. Buffing T-34/76 AI also adds late game diversity ( the goal of relic balance team so they say in their patch notes) by reducing the reliance on call in super heavy or SNIPER spam by soviet (look at most late game top player soviet players and you will notice a trend toward heavy FUEL banking - this is simply because you can only have 1 super heavy, and because there is currently no offensive fuel expenditure for soviets that performs better than simply getting snipers or even ML20 arty (600manpower, 0 fuel)).

5) I've always seen allies as the offensive faction with axis having to rely on defensive units (MG/paks, etc) but currently soviets lack a medium tank that can give them late game offensive power ( katy is defensive, SU-85's are defensive, etc) outside of call-in or doctrine specific. This offensive aspect of allies should be a part of the armies CORE unit design imo.

28 Jul 2015, 20:54 PM
#2
avatar of 5trategos

Posts: 449

I find Soviets currently have enough anti-infantry vehicles, there's no need to shift another one in that role and relegating their only non-doctrinal generalist tank.

Other threads have suggested a reduction in the T34s population value by 2. That sounds like a better fit to me.

Pop values in general have been omitted from balance patches in recent memory and deserve a look-over.
28 Jul 2015, 20:58 PM
#3
avatar of Lumpy
Patrion 27

Posts: 78

I could get behind this. I 100% agree that there is a really noticeable drop off in the Soviets' current effectiveness (without the use of soviet call in/doctrine tanks) if Axis is able to withstand the tide of light vehicles, and the T34 doesn't really have a defined role I would say.

The only real useful unit in tier 4 right now in 1v1 is the Katyusha, and even that is pretty situational since a lot of the current meta soviet commanders have some form of off map artillery, or ML-20s if you choose to go that route :luvDerp:

maybe introduce a mechanic similar to the M4A3 Sherman where you can swap from AP to HE, but maybe scale back the damage some so the cost doesn't have to increase significantly as compensation. I know the sherman's HE shell power is viewed a bit controversially, but I think with proper damage tweaking it could put the T34/76 in a pretty nice spot.

Another option would be to make the 34/85, and I guess if they do it for the soviets they could add it for USF easy eight as well, a non-doctrine upgrade that can be researched either as a global upgrade at each factions' respective T4 building or perhaps similar to weapons upgrades on grenediers, however costing fuel instead of munitions.

Just some ideas.

Edit: made some parts less wordy so it is easier to understand :romeoMug:
28 Jul 2015, 21:10 PM
#4
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2015, 20:58 PMLumpy
Another option would be to make the 34/85, and I guess if they do it for the soviets they could add it for USF easy eight as well, a non-doctrine upgrade that can be researched either as a global upgrade that can be researched at each factions' respective T4 building

A long-proposed simplistic solution for reducing Allied's late-game commander dependency, but there's no indication Relic has an interest in the concept.

But hey, they swapped ST and PIV, right?

I'll admit part of me would prefer they just make the stock units really work by themselves...they do that, most of the commander issues are solved (though I wouldn't doubt numerous late-game commander options would need a nerf to accomplish that).
28 Jul 2015, 21:39 PM
#5
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

aaa
28 Jul 2015, 21:42 PM
#6
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

Removing AT capabilities from 76 is an obvious absurd. Their mediums would be moving around sov ATG and SU85 no problem.
Infantry superiority can be reduced by making PTRS upgrade non-doc and nerfing rifle nades to the normal state.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/36718/conscripts-need-mid-game-buff
This way you would be able to have normal late game infantry and T3485.
aaa
28 Jul 2015, 23:21 PM
#7
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486


Even TS is constantly mentions OH faction and OH units and never OKW.
Im taliking about it constantly too. This fraction is OP. If they buff sov late game inf then they must buff OKW inf as well.

So best way is just nerf OH.
29 Jul 2015, 06:20 AM
#8
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

I don't think OH needs nerfs...Soviet stock infantry is just shit and die like flies...T34 needs a slight AI buff and maybe price increase and Cons,without PPsh are too weak...and Penals...no comment,waste of 320 mp and game lost...
29 Jul 2015, 06:26 AM
#9
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Considering it comes out rather late (who rushes t4 for a 14 min t34?),
I fully agree with this.
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