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russian armor

A Molotov problem or...?

4 Jul 2015, 00:13 AM
#61
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

No, you are missing the point the fact that a unit cost 240mp life grens and then purposely designed to perform worst at the game progress is bad design. late game they just bleed man power and waste pop cap. Hence the gaurd spam you see everygame, this has nothing to do with call-ins and doesn't make sense


Soviets are best in game at MP bleed due to fighting largely static factions while possessing great arty. Soviets frequently don't tech, which is bonus MP for them.

Anyway, Cons only bleed lategame if you charge them at the enemy like a dunce, or are fighting insane OKW troops.

Instead of complaining about Cons you should be complaining about the Maxim and Penals.
4 Jul 2015, 00:27 AM
#62
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



Soviets are best in game at MP bleed due to fighting largely static factions while possessing great arty. Soviets frequently don't tech, which is bonus MP for them.

Anyway, Cons only bleed lategame if you charge them at the enemy like a dunce, or are fighting insane OKW troops.

Instead of complaining about Cons you should be complaining about the Maxim and Penals.


The only arty the soviets have is the katyusha and maybe the 120mm if you want to add that but, thats doctrinal, and soviets dont tech because they have bad stock units like conscripts. Cons bleed late game regardless and what are you even talking about? charging them? they die regardless at all ranges, what am i suppose to do with them? keep them in maybe base late game, they are mainline infantry so I use them to fight, like everyone else, now if penals and maxims were buffed to be better units than cons would be fine because they would be supported by them , but they aren't
4 Jul 2015, 00:53 AM
#63
avatar of Justin xv

Posts: 255

Molotov is useless if your opponnent is not a big dumb, or if he is concentrate.


Well said, I completely agree.

Those big dumbs I tell ya!
4 Jul 2015, 01:33 AM
#64
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891



The only arty the soviets have is the katyusha and maybe the 120mm if you want to add that but, thats doctrinal, and soviets dont tech because they have bad stock units like conscripts. Cons bleed late game regardless and what are you even talking about? charging them? they die regardless at all ranges, what am i suppose to do with them? keep them in maybe base late game, they are mainline infantry so I use them to fight, like everyone else, now if penals and maxims were buffed to be better units than cons would be fine because they would be supported by them , but they aren't


Lategame they should be used as line infantry: to defend while in cover. If you want to use them offensively support them with call-ins and stuff. (Maxims need buffs along with Penals, I agree.)

Grens can be used as mini terminators because the Germans don't have elite troops, and the hmg MG42 is no good lategame for supporting them. Also, "flavor."

The Cons sprint also makes AT made and 6 cheap men make the squad a debatably better AT snare than Grens.

4 Jul 2015, 02:00 AM
#65
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525


Oh, really?
Well, it seems to me that it is useless even if you have dumbest opponent ever.



/discuss

Well...Grens killed 3 Conscript models in 3 bursts...and the MG packed then unpacked and stood still chillin' in the flames for 5-6 seconds,loosing a guy ?
4 Jul 2015, 02:08 AM
#66
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 600


Oh, really?
Well, it seems to me that it is useless even if you have dumbest opponent ever.



/discuss


it forced the retreat and dislodged the MG. Working as intended.
4 Jul 2015, 02:16 AM
#67
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 02:08 AMCorsin


it forced the retreat and dislodged the MG. Working as intended.
it only forced the retreat because the other guy panicked; he could have ordered the MG out and been fine. additionally, the purpose of every other grenade is to cause damage, not merely retreats. giving cons a nade that sometimes causes retreats gives them a second class nade, especially compared to RGs,sneaky assault grenades, and WP nades (which have similar mechanics but are actually effective, regardless of the cost).
4 Jul 2015, 02:39 AM
#68
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

it only forced the retreat because the other guy panicked; he could have ordered the MG out and been fine. additionally, the purpose of every other grenade is to cause damage, not merely retreats. giving cons a nade that sometimes causes retreats gives them a second class nade, especially compared to RGs,sneaky assault grenades, and WP nades (which have similar mechanics but are actually effective, regardless of the cost).
And I could easily walk out of Mollies most of the time before the latest patch...
4 Jul 2015, 03:34 AM
#69
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Guys it's simple: they adjusted the damage of only the flamethrowers.

If you remove across the board the chance of crits through fire, and you don't adjust accordingly the damage, it's just a huge nerf on all flame based weapons and abilities.
4 Jul 2015, 04:09 AM
#70
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Well to be fair molotovs should be buffed through accessibility imo. I also liked the suggestion of them dealing 40 damage initially and then do damage over time. Soviets are clearly showing their age. They have been the same since beta when the game was almost completely different. Cons should get molotovs by default when t1 or t2 is built in their current state.
4 Jul 2015, 04:46 AM
#71
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 02:39 AMVuther
And I could easily walk out of Mollies most of the time before the latest patch...

well it all came down to RNG; the damage is still the same.
4 Jul 2015, 06:44 AM
#72
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Molotovs could cost a bit more if... They were a bit more reliable IE suggestions above.
4 Jul 2015, 06:53 AM
#73
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

AOE buff or make squad throw multiple
4 Jul 2015, 07:00 AM
#74
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1


well it all came down to RNG; the damage is still the same.

Of course (I've seen a couple insta-burninated squads to attest), but the fact remains it is all the easier for a squad to walk out of a Molotov without any fatalties now.
4 Jul 2015, 08:44 AM
#75
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Well to be fair molotovs should be buffed through accessibility imo. I also liked the suggestion of them dealing 40 damage initially and then do damage over time. Soviets are clearly showing their age. They have been the same since beta when the game was almost completely different. Cons should get molotovs by default when t1 or t2 is built in their current state.


Upgrades shouldn't be removed and given out freely for teching up since it does remove player choice and alternative play styles. The Molotov should be adjust to a viable upgrade for what it costs. That way player choice is kept and more viable strategies can evolve (e.g. do I go for molotovs to try and bolster my early game to get a better share of the map or do I try to rush a vehilce?).

One of the reasons why people say coh1 had more depth in certain aspects is because for instance USF had a lot of upgrades (nades, stickies, bars (global upgrade), demos, supply yard upgrades). The timing or if you planned to use them was up to the player and led to more viable strategies (rushing nades, going for bars or a fast m8 etc.).
4 Jul 2015, 08:57 AM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


/snip


You might have understood it, but me being on the internet so many years have taught me to NEVER give more credit to people then I would give to potatoes.

If you got it, great! Few other people as well, but there is always an idiot who would take it seriously.

You know, "Two things are infinite, universe and human stupidity and I'm not certain about the universe".

Also, flame HT also apparently was too strong since it got the nerf as well.

Its really hard to support relic when they go full retard basically with everything they do or change. Seems like their ability to foresee implications of changes is non existent.
4 Jul 2015, 17:10 PM
#77
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

oh look he quoted einstein he must be smart

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