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Katyusha was really like?

3 Jul 2015, 07:17 AM
#41
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 06:30 AMJorad
Still the Kubelwagon is a #$%@#$% volkswagen and it can survive 1 shot from sherman or at gun.


Realism is not a measurement for balance. Also it makes no sense that any tank survives a penetrating shot in this game.

Why every thread has to turn into a fanboy war?
3 Jul 2015, 07:35 AM
#42
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345



Not sure if serious ...

I'am not really sure that the Katyusha need the ability to pin any squad caught in the barrage area ( a full screen or little less ) ?

Ostheer have to call a plane to pin squad, in a reduct area compared to katyusha aoe range, and will not kill infantry ( or 1-2 entity maybe )



Ihmo troll thread, but come on, the ostheer plane pin any and all squads in their area while katyusha can hit or miss squad in its area....really different ones.

In addition one is an ability and you don´t need to tech for it....so reaaaaaally differents one, no room for comparing them.

3 Jul 2015, 07:46 AM
#43
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

The Katyusha was known for his ability to strike terror on the German troops, I think that should immobilize the troops that are within the impact area of the barrage. What do you think?


historical reason youve stated without any evidence to back it up. You also have not backed up your argument with a reason why/how it would work in game and why it make it better. then the katuska was not the only thing to cause fear the enemy hearts and minds. most nations had one thing or another that one side was afraid of.

an idea this did give me:
maybe make it a special ability barrage where instead of doing major damage its a spread out suppression shot (not full pin unless your in smaller proximity). however this could probably be added on any of the factions rocket artillery. though i also thought it could be a neat replacement for or addition to direct fire with something far more tactical and interesting.
3 Jul 2015, 08:06 AM
#44
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 07:35 AMFul4n0



Ihmo troll thread, but come on, the ostheer plane pin any and all squads in their area while katyusha can hit or miss squad in its area....really different ones.

In addition one is an ability and you don´t need to tech for it....so reaaaaaally differents one, no room for comparing them.



Pin != Kill, you choose one or the other, not both, or you give every arty the same ability, imo it's a bad idea

3 Jul 2015, 08:11 AM
#45
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209



Realism is not a measurement for balance. Also it makes no sense that any tank survives a penetrating shot in this game.

Why every thread has to turn into a fanboy war?

I was just asking, but you canot ask no more becuase you get jumped on and accused for things you havent even done.
3 Jul 2015, 08:19 AM
#46
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Uh, due to OKW's fuel penalty the Stuka costs about 136 fuel, so it's almost worth two Kat's. The Kat and Stuka are also two different rolls of artillery, the Kat is focused on area denial and the Stuka is made for breaking enemy defensive lines in preparation for an assault.



Cost about 136 fuel ? Really ?
Alex please meet with math at first and then start saying something ...
When okw get 66 % fuel penalty(in reality is is something near 70 % because fuel poins give you 71% [you get 5 fuel from 7] if we talk theoreticly in half map control)

And if you get 66 % fuel it means you get 100 fuel instaed of 150 (if you were other faction) because 66 % of 150 fuel is 100 F


And 66% of 136 fuel is something about 90 fuel.

3 Jul 2015, 17:36 PM
#47
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




Cost about 136 fuel ? Really ?
Alex please meet with math at first and then start saying something ...
When okw get 66 % fuel penalty(in reality is is something near 70 % because fuel poins give you 71% [you get 5 fuel from 7] if we talk theoreticly in half map control)

And if you get 66 % fuel it means you get 100 fuel instaed of 150 (if you were other faction) because 66 % of 150 fuel is 100 F


And 66% of 136 fuel is something about 90 fuel.



OKW get 71% (well give or take sometimes it can actually be the 66% or sometime 73% depending on map control) on average. Now, here's the math.

100/.73 = 136, 100/.71 = 140.

The reason why you want to do this conversion when talking about unit cost is that it means OKW artificially will never be able to match the enemy in amount of vehicles made (this is by design).
3 Jul 2015, 18:00 PM
#48
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
NOO, NOO. FUEL PENALTY IS FAKE. RELIC LIED TO US. OKW OP.
3 Jul 2015, 18:47 PM
#49
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



OKW get 71% (well give or take sometimes it can actually be the 66% or sometime 73% depending on map control) on average. Now, here's the math.

100/.73 = 136, 100/.71 = 140.

The reason why you want to do this conversion when talking about unit cost is that it means OKW artificially will never be able to match the enemy in amount of vehicles made (this is by design).


Its nice how we are arguing in math while we are saying both the same : Okw gets less vehicles than other faction due okw fuel penalty
3 Jul 2015, 19:23 PM
#50
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Resources are not guaranteed. Fifty fuel on one map and fifty fuel in the hands in one faction can vary so considerably from match to match and from map to map that analyzing units based off their cost is a fool's errand.

It can be done with manpower alone to an extent, but not munitions or fuel, even for OKW. Incidentally, the arbitrary conversions of munitions and fuel to manpower as a method for balancing units I think has overwhelmingly been proven to be ineffective. The only conceivably balanced units based strictly on a cost-performance ratio are the basic core infantry. And even those are contentious at best.

***edit
Also, to be on topic, Katyushas strike terror into ME when I am playing as axis, which usually results in large swathes of my front lines retreating in fear of a freak squad wipe. I think that's an effective enough derivative of the Katyusha's demoralizing effect historically.
3 Jul 2015, 19:54 PM
#51
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Zombi we (me and alex) were talking only theoreticaly because in reality you must put there many other factor , even your - players skill.

If we want to compesate units in reality it is much harder , because some faction are better in mid game so they get a bit more fuel etc.


Also OKW is having cheaper HQ and OKW units are often oerperfoming if we dont count on their fuel penalty (for example panzer 2 cost 50 and t 70 cost 70 )

We were just talking when both player will be having half map for whole game - this is called theorycrafting in ideal conditions.

So in ideal conditions 1 stuka cost as much as 1,6 katty.

Hope this :help:s



4 Jul 2015, 20:28 PM
#52
avatar of Vitor

Posts: 57

Something like the nebelwerfer? Oh god, please no.
4 Jul 2015, 22:26 PM
#53
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701



I'm really tempted to believe you....


But you have one game as Soviets ever played................


Do what you want,no one cares Kappa
nee
5 Jul 2015, 09:10 AM
#54
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

It might be more realistic, but frankly suppression would be unnecessary, it's large spread of rockets already causes problems to the enemy, making their infantry unable to respond to anything during and afterwards would be ridiculous.
You'd have to AT LEAST compensate by allowing all artillery units to do the same. The very threat of squad wipes from multiple rockets in successive barrages is already enough "fear" element to the unit.
5 Jul 2015, 11:56 AM
#55
avatar of J1N6666

Posts: 306

troll thread

Step-by-step relic balance

If an allied unit has an equivalent axis unit it must be either

1. not cost-effective

2. useless

3. be effective at feeding axis units vet

4. or all the above


Our legend has spoke again!
23 Jul 2015, 02:01 AM
#56
avatar of Madness

Posts: 33



He hasn't even said anything "bullshit" in this thread, man.

It's true: the Stuka and the Katy fulfill different roles. Personally, I'd rather have a Katy than a Stuka, since it's cheaper, can fire more often and, in my opinion, is easier to aim effectively. Often when I'm playing OKW I find that the long line shape of the Stuka's barrage doesn't match the shape of my target. Meanwhile, the nice simple Katy circle is always effective no matter what you're shooting at, and covers a fair breadth too. Sure the Stuka may be able to do more damage to precise locations, but the Katy just feels overall more consistent to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
23 Jul 2015, 03:16 AM
#57
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2015, 02:01 AMMadness


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c


Personally, I'd rather have a Katy than a Stuka, since it's cheaper, can fire more often and, in my opinion, is easier to aim effectively.


since it's cheaper, can fire more often and, in my opinion,


in my opinion


Congratulations, you can read!
23 Jul 2015, 04:58 AM
#58
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

The Katyusha had a reputation of being feared, but they weren't the only rocket launcher of the war.

Why limit the ability to the Katyusha when the Germans have the Stuka and the panzerwerfer when they were just as effective?

Just because it's feared doesn't mean everything else wasn't scary in comparison.
23 Jul 2015, 05:21 AM
#59
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Just because it's feared doesn't mean everything else wasn't scary in comparison.


But thats too logical.

Soldiers fear a painful and sudden death.

Katyushas can cause painful and sudden deaths.

All rocket artillery causes painful and sudden deaths.

-

Katyusha is working fine in this game and doesnt need any unfair advantages.
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