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russian armor

Pershing ?

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6 Jul 2015, 22:40 PM
#261
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618

Janne252 is the only one who would know, and he hasn't said anything about it.


Janne doesn't know either, he literally just spawned it with his cheat command mod. There's nothing in the files that would indicate how the Pershing would be implemented, though it is most likely through a commander.
Phy
6 Jul 2015, 22:40 PM
#262
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 20:50 PMButcher
The Pershing doesn´t really belong into the game


Of course not, any other faction in the game has heavy tanks. :loco:
7 Jul 2015, 04:17 AM
#263
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Janne doesn't know either, he literally just spawned it with his cheat command mod. There's nothing in the files that would indicate how the Pershing would be implemented, though it is most likely through a commander.


You can't spawn it in the game if it doesn't exist yet?
7 Jul 2015, 04:37 AM
#264
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



You can't spawn it in the game if it doesn't exist yet?


NDA's within the Alpha :P
7 Jul 2015, 09:10 AM
#265
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618



You can't spawn it in the game if it doesn't exist yet?


Uh

wait, what? You were in the alpha, right?
7 Jul 2015, 09:52 AM
#266
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


You could argue that since it was 1945, the crew of the Tiger Tank was inexperienced conscripts and thought the Sherman was trying to escape, therefor tried to chase them through the smoke.


They wouldn't give a precious tiger to a scrub crew, they would receive the Stug III G. But valid points, a scrub crew would perhaps make such a mistake.
7 Jul 2015, 09:54 AM
#267
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Sure, the T34/85 may have had a hard time dealing with a tiger, but behind the T34 was an assault gun/ anti-tank detachment with su-100s, {i}su122s, and isu152s.

Unfortunatly, COH2 is a very narrowly focused game, and without access to all the units armies would have had to counter each other, certain units have to take up roles they never had in real life. This is why historical arguments are meaningless in terms of balance in COH2, and why we have tanks like the T34/76 somehow being used as a main battle tank in 1944. (In reality it had the role of a valentine/ stuart at this point in the war)


I agree, yet I still like the historical discussions since it is almost the only option to silence people like Katikoff. Fanboyism can't succeed with hard evidence :)
7 Jul 2015, 09:56 AM
#268
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
But if the Pershing gets to be a commander unit, can't people just call it in (via tier if needed) and make the crew hop out, send it to die, resulting in the Pershing crew dead, and call in another one and recrew the first one with lets say an m20 crew.
7 Jul 2015, 09:59 AM
#269
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Fanboyism can't succeed with hard evidence :)


You seem to be doing fine to me.
7 Jul 2015, 10:29 AM
#270
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702



You can't spawn it in the game if it doesn't exist yet?



The pershing along with the calliope does exist. They are in game units, and they have defined stat values.


Pershing seemed to be quite balanced as a heavy, calliope though, :snfPeter:


But i doubt it that the calliope will make it in game like it was in the alpha.
7 Jul 2015, 16:26 PM
#271
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Uh

wait, what? You were in the alpha, right?


We're not allowed to talk about that here.
7 Jul 2015, 16:35 PM
#272
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jul 2015, 22:40 PMPhy


Of course not, any other faction in the game has heavy tanks. :loco:
Do I really have to answer that? You obviously don´t want to understand me.

The USF is designed around medium tanks, yet lacks good medium tanks outside of doctrines. Before mirroring a Tiger, it would be nice to have either Hellcats, some 76mm Sherman variant (M4A1 isn´t in the game for example) or access to the 76mm as a weapons upgrade for the already existing Shermans. You could add a Jumbo as a heavy variant. Vehicles that actually played a role in the war in more than a handful engagements.

I prefer that over seeing Tiger copies in 2/3rds of the games played.
7 Jul 2015, 16:50 PM
#273
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


You seem to be doing fine to me.


You aren't
7 Jul 2015, 16:53 PM
#274
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

Do I really have to answer that? You obviously don´t want to understand me.

The USF is designed around medium tanks, yet lacks good medium tanks outside of doctrines. Before mirroring a Tiger, it would be nice to have either Hellcats, some 76mm Sherman variant (M4A1 isn´t in the game for example) or access to the 76mm as a weapons upgrade for the already existing Shermans. You could add a Jumbo as a heavy variant. Vehicles that actually played a role in the war in more than a handful engagements.

I prefer that over seeing Tiger copies in 2/3rds of the games played.


Yet the JagdTiger and SturmTiger are both ingame and the latter is a stock unit despite not having a single verified record of combat use. Just sayin.......
7 Jul 2015, 16:54 PM
#275
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

Do I really have to answer that? You obviously don´t want to understand me.

The USF is designed around medium tanks, yet lacks good medium tanks outside of doctrines. Before mirroring a Tiger, it would be nice to have either Hellcats, some 76mm Sherman variant (M4A1 isn´t in the game for example) or access to the 76mm as a weapons upgrade for the already existing Shermans. You could add a Jumbo as a heavy variant. Vehicles that actually played a role in the war in more than a handful engagements.

I prefer that over seeing Tiger copies in 2/3rds of the games played.



You aren't playing by the rules.

Step 1 - If an Allied fanbois says he wants a Pershing in the game, the axis fanbois must counter either that none were in combat until March or that there were no major pershing on German tank engagements therefore the lack of them is historical.

Step 2 - If Allied fanbois points out the historical issues of German armor the Axis fanbois must respond that this is a game.

Corollary is that anything ever prototyped by the Germans should be modeled as a real combat vehicle that performs to spec. (only 10 Sturms were ever finished, 100 50cm pumas, 40 ostwinds, etc.) While Allied kit is only for use if it landed in Normandy and was built in quantities greater than 10,000.

Ok, that last bit was hyperbole. There were Calliopes in the hundreds.

(As to the COH1 Bergtiger.... Possibly it never existed.
7 Jul 2015, 17:07 PM
#276
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Yet the difference is that it does not matter whether you get an Ostwind or a Möbelwagen.

Germans have the tank advantage anyways - who cares if it´s a Panther or a King Tiger, a Jagdpanzer or a Jagdtiger?

Introducing another class of vehicle out of the blue makes a huge difference. I´m not looking forward to Tiger copies everywhere... that´s my opinion. It´s lazy and USF are still going to lack decent medium tanks.

Next step could be a sniper (dual) for OKW and USA. Maybe a Willies Jeep Kübelwagen equivalent for USA. CAS for everybody.
7 Jul 2015, 18:19 PM
#277
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

Yet the difference is that it does not matter whether you get an Ostwind or a Möbelwagen.

Germans have the tank advantage anyways - who cares if it´s a Panther or a King Tiger, a Jagdpanzer or a Jagdtiger?

Introducing another class of vehicle out of the blue makes a huge difference. I´m not looking forward to Tiger copies everywhere... that´s my opinion. It´s lazy and USF are still going to lack decent medium tanks.

Next step could be a sniper (dual) for OKW and USA. Maybe a Willies Jeep Kübelwagen equivalent for USA. CAS for everybody.



Honestly, I would argue a bit more pseudo mirroring might be good for balance.

All the differences haven't exactly made balancing the game easy. And "similar" units in different armies and with different abilities or coming from different tiers or diff CPs would probably play quite differently despite superficial similarities. After all, don't all the factions have a non-doc mg? Are they all the same? How about the AT guns?

The real Pershing was certainly no Tiger analog. A heavier "medium" tank with a gun that could finally punch holes in the front of German armor it was not as heavily armroed. OTOH it was a much more maneuverable tank, could cross more bridges, was more mechanically reliable than either the pV, VI or VII.

(Also it would have been available in much greater numbers had the war dragged on even a couple more months. And production at the time was already up to 200/month and climbing.
7 Jul 2015, 19:24 PM
#278
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618



We're not allowed to talk about that here.


People have already leaked shit. Mirage found Pershing related stuff in the live game files. Janne's screenshot was even leaked on the Relic forums. I figured there's no point in keeping it a secret as the Pershing is obviously going to be added. I was just saying Janne doesn't know how it will be implemented either.

8 Jul 2015, 07:26 AM
#279
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



Yet the JagdTiger and SturmTiger are both ingame and the latter is a stock unit despite not having a single verified record of combat use. Just sayin.......


I'm too lazy to translate this so use a google translator, it was used in combat:

http://www.zweiter-weltkrieg-lexikon.de/panzer/33-jagdpanzer-panzerjaeger-und-panzerartillerie/172-sturmtiger-38cm-sturmmoerser-qtigerq
8 Jul 2015, 14:45 PM
#280
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

Do I really have to answer that? You obviously don´t want to understand me.

The USF is designed around medium tanks, yet lacks good medium tanks outside of doctrines. Before mirroring a Tiger, it would be nice to have either Hellcats, some 76mm Sherman variant (M4A1 isn´t in the game for example) or access to the 76mm as a weapons upgrade for the already existing Shermans. You could add a Jumbo as a heavy variant. Vehicles that actually played a role in the war in more than a handful engagements.

I prefer that over seeing Tiger copies in 2/3rds of the games played.


Sov is also designed around mediums, the faction can´t field better than SU85 witch was barely worst than Jackson before patch. T34-76 are more or less rounded as Sherman. But yeah Sov has ISU, IS2 and many other heavies in doctrine.
In term of balance and gameplay, Relic has already shifted their meta with Ostheer stronger early and mid game. Since it seems now all factions are more or less designed to be effective at every stage of the game, it clearly open the way to 1 heavy tank for USF.

Now will Relic takes the decision to add new commanders for OKW and USF and includes Pershing in one of them? I don´t know, could be good in fact and maybe re-equilibrate 4vs4 modes for a cheap add.
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