Lately I've been seeing alot of USF players spamming jacksons. It basically hard counters the tiger whilst being at a fraction of the price. When I play USF against Ostheer my first tank is usually an Easy Eight as it easily deals with a PIV. Afterwards the E8 gets augmented by a Jackson, which easily deals with Tigers and Panthers. Its currently incredibly easy to play as USF, even easier than it was before the patch.
Ostheer has a slightly better early game since the newest patch... but the new Jackson performance did considerably nerf Ostheer's late-game performance. Mix that in with IS2 meta in team games it seems to be a nightmare now for any sort of comeback.
Thoughts?
Jackson spam
30 May 2015, 10:19 AM
#1
Posts: 82
30 May 2015, 10:34 AM
#2
Posts: 732
Yes, you are right. Thats why more and more Ostheer players prefer going T4 for panthers with spotting scopes instead of tiger. Better vs Jacksons. In teamgames I feel like you need a jagdpanzer or even Jagdtiger (still really good!) to counter.
30 May 2015, 10:39 AM
#3
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The tiger is an all-round heavy tank, this means that it is decent at everything; it does not mean that it is excellent at everything and you can solve any problem with them. Support your tigers with panzershreks and AT-guns to deter enemy tank destroyers.
30 May 2015, 10:47 AM
#4
Posts: 82
The tiger is an all-round heavy tank, this means that it is decent at everything; it does not mean that it is excellent at everything and you can solve any problem with them. Support your tigers with panzershreks and AT-guns to deter enemy tank destroyers.
In a typical engagement my Jackson(s) are guarded by Rifles with Flamers+Bars, 1 MG and an E8.
My Rifles and the MG deal with infantry. Panzerschrecks only have 35 range, they would not be able to reach the Jackson before losing too many models.
30 May 2015, 10:51 AM
#5
Posts: 692
In a typical engagement my Jackson(s) are guarded by Rifles with Flamers+Bars, 1 MG and an E8.
My Rifles and the MG deal with infantry. Panzerschrecks only have 35 range, they would not be able to reach the Jackson before losing too many models.
So in other words your enemy has no vehicle-based AI
He's using his vehicles to counter yours, I don't see the problem
30 May 2015, 10:52 AM
#6
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Fraction of price?
2 jacksons cost more then a tiger.
1 jackson isn't a spam.
Don't spam tigers against USF, P4 is still there as potent as ever.
And if jacksons are guarded, there isn't really any excuse why your tanks shouldn't be supported by PaKs and LMG rens.
2 jacksons cost more then a tiger.
1 jackson isn't a spam.
Don't spam tigers against USF, P4 is still there as potent as ever.
And if jacksons are guarded, there isn't really any excuse why your tanks shouldn't be supported by PaKs and LMG rens.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 May 2015, 10:53 AM
#7
Posts: 1063
Tiger is still crucial vs Jackson I think, vs US if his rifleman gets slaughtered, Jackson is not much of a threat. As OH, I fear the M10 horde more than Jackson.
30 May 2015, 11:08 AM
#8
Posts: 82
Fraction of price?
2 jacksons cost more then a tiger.
1 jackson isn't a spam.
Don't spam tigers against USF, P4 is still there as potent as ever.
And if jacksons are guarded, there isn't really any excuse why your tanks shouldn't be supported by PaKs and LMG rens.
Jacksons cost 125 fuel. Tigers cost 640 manpower & 230 fuel.
Nonetheless I agree that P4's are potent, but with its short range of 40 and no vehicle-lock , Jacksons easily do away with them.
30 May 2015, 11:08 AM
#9
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
So a dedicated weak T4 Tank Destroyer with no health, armour or anti infantry is killing your super heavy anti everything attack move tanks?
Try countering Tank Destroyers with AT Guns or Shreks.
Try countering Tank Destroyers with AT Guns or Shreks.
30 May 2015, 11:10 AM
#10
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
The Jackson is quite powerfull lately, so it should be. I see no real problem with it, nor with USF faction as a whole. Tiger is a little shitty atm compared to what it should be, but that's another topic.
I think that currently USF armor finlay found its balanced place. If USF where bathing in manpower as OKW, then their tanks would feel OP, but it's not the case. Before patch, USF had nothing strong enough to work in lategame with. Not the case anymore and I'm glad. For balance's sake.
I think that currently USF armor finlay found its balanced place. If USF where bathing in manpower as OKW, then their tanks would feel OP, but it's not the case. Before patch, USF had nothing strong enough to work in lategame with. Not the case anymore and I'm glad. For balance's sake.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
30 May 2015, 11:22 AM
#11
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Cover your Tiger with 2 paks, cover the paks with a MG42 and use a sniper to punish squads that try to take your paks or hmg out.
And most importantly, wipe squads with your Tiger and slowly push forward with your force so your paks always retaliate every Jackson shot.
It comes always down to the fact that combined arms > all.
And most importantly, wipe squads with your Tiger and slowly push forward with your force so your paks always retaliate every Jackson shot.
It comes always down to the fact that combined arms > all.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
30 May 2015, 12:05 PM
#12
Posts: 2779
Jacksons are fine, Tigers are not.
Paying double cost of a PIV but just marginally little better than PIV is, a joke.
Paying double cost of a PIV but just marginally little better than PIV is, a joke.
30 May 2015, 12:22 PM
#13
Posts: 35
p4/scout car + scope and at guns are my way to deal with any armor
land mines on flanks
land mines on flanks
30 May 2015, 12:25 PM
#14
Posts: 1653
Pak 40s with twp whoop whoop. Did help me and aerohank multiple times when we do 2v2.
30 May 2015, 12:45 PM
#15
Posts: 144
Tiger is now in a defensive role, and not used to be a spearhead which is now for KT/panthers.
I see lot of post complaining about Ostheer but i think they are actually awesome, like FaustCost said after patch they have plenty of viable gamestyle : Elefants are awesome, Howitzer 105mm + Arty Officer are awesome, encirclement doc is awesome, mortar HT are deadly, you also have Pak43, Close OP support, ...
If you loose as Ostheer it's L2P issue and #adapt.
I see lot of post complaining about Ostheer but i think they are actually awesome, like FaustCost said after patch they have plenty of viable gamestyle : Elefants are awesome, Howitzer 105mm + Arty Officer are awesome, encirclement doc is awesome, mortar HT are deadly, you also have Pak43, Close OP support, ...
If you loose as Ostheer it's L2P issue and #adapt.
#FreeKatitof
soviets
#Give20BucksToThisBravePigsoup
amis #CIAisStrongHere
CA
soviets #Give20BucksToThisBravePigsoupamis #CIAisStrongHereCA
30 May 2015, 12:49 PM
#16
Posts: 1653
So you say that the howitzer is great? Give me a break. It was great, now it's shit
30 May 2015, 12:50 PM
#17
Posts: 2779
Tiger is now in a defensive role, and not used to be a spearhead which is now for KT/panthers.
I see lot of post complaining about Ostheer but i think they are actually awesome, like FaustCost said after patch they have plenty of viable gamestyle : Elefants are awesome, Howitzer 105mm + Arty Officer are awesome, encirclement doc is awesome, mortar HT are deadly, you also have Pak43, Close OP support, ...
If you loose as Ostheer it's L2P issue and #adapt.
Yeah, possibly every Allies AT can penetrate the poor Tiger at a quite high chance and it counts as defensive.
IS2 and ISU can't be penetrate even P4 shooting their ass.
This must be awesome.
If Ostheer is really that fine, they won't receive massive [censored], and the OP cheesy abusive Soviet getting massive [censored].
Encirclement awesome? Shit it must be the most regretted 4 bucks I gave to Lelic.
30 May 2015, 13:12 PM
#18
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Tiger is now in a defensive role, and not used to be a spearhead which is now for KT/panthers.
I see lot of post complaining about Ostheer but i think they are actually awesome, like FaustCost said after patch they have plenty of viable gamestyle : Elefants are awesome, Howitzer 105mm + Arty Officer are awesome, encirclement doc is awesome, mortar HT are deadly, you also have Pak43, Close OP support, ...
If you loose as Ostheer it's L2P issue and #adapt.
Encirclement awesome
LefH awesome
Oh grandmaster of coh2, is this your playercard?
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
30 May 2015, 13:17 PM
#19
Posts: 1217
I posted it somewhere else. The problem is the Tigers survivability that got crippled throughout the patches.
1) Less health
2) Weaker Blitz
3) No vet survivability bonus at all
Coupled with
4) Better penetration for the Jackson (which was needed though).
Imo vet 2 should be adjusted to additionally give the Tiger its initial health (pre nerf) back.
1) Less health
2) Weaker Blitz
3) No vet survivability bonus at all
Coupled with
4) Better penetration for the Jackson (which was needed though).
Imo vet 2 should be adjusted to additionally give the Tiger its initial health (pre nerf) back.
30 May 2015, 13:18 PM
#20
Posts: 82
I think jacksons cost should be 150 fuel. They're too cost effective now, & in team games are being spammed. Just my 2 cents.
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