Zis Guns and Pak 40s
30 Mar 2015, 06:09 AM
#21
Posts: 27
...how do i quote something for my sig?
30 Mar 2015, 06:35 AM
#22
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Haha, OP funny(best part for me was when T34 bounces for him PaK shots), now fly.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Mar 2015, 07:07 AM
#23
Posts: 1003
New day - new whine toppic.
ZiS and pak40 are great guns, with no problem.
ZiS and pak40 are great guns, with no problem.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
30 Mar 2015, 07:15 AM
#24
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
OP, the issues you wrote (related to these 2 AT guns comparison) exist mainly because currently Tiger's state as heavy tank is close to pudding, regardless anything soviet aplauders have to say. It's exactly the same situation as it was a while ago, when they were crying because tiger > is2 most of the times, but in mirror. The reality is that RELIC failed to balance these 2 heavy tanks.
About the ZIS, it's okish and it can shoot any unit with a degree of efficiency - vehicles and infantry alike (because it has that barrage ability), but it's not as god as you described.
About the ZIS, it's okish and it can shoot any unit with a degree of efficiency - vehicles and infantry alike (because it has that barrage ability), but it's not as god as you described.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
30 Mar 2015, 07:36 AM
#25
Posts: 300
OP, the issues you wrote (related to these 2 AT guns comparison) exist mainly because currently Tiger's state as heavy tank is close to pudding, regardless anything soviet aplauders have to say. It's exactly the same situation as it was a while ago, when they were crying because tiger > is2 most of the times, but in mirror. The reality is that RELIC failed to balance these 2 heavy tanks.
About the ZIS, it's okish and it can shoot any unit with a degree of efficiency - vehicles and infantry alike (because it has that barrage ability), but it's not as god as you described.
mind elaborating on how exactly the Tiger I is pudding? and yeah A Tiger I beating an IS-2? I can see why people were upset how would you feel if a sherman beat a Tiger I head to head?
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30 Mar 2015, 07:38 AM
#26
Posts: 1702
FailFish....
Comparing zis-3 and pak-40 in terms of penetration is futile because the ZIS-3 WAS NEVER AN ANTI TANK PIECE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It was an artillery piece, like the pak howitzer or LEIG. Except that it was superior to both of these designs, because it could also double as a decent anti tank gun.
Soviets did have a real AT gun. It was called the zis-2 57mm. That gun was just as good, if not better, than the pak 40.
Comparing zis-3 and pak-40 in terms of penetration is futile because the ZIS-3 WAS NEVER AN ANTI TANK PIECE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It was an artillery piece, like the pak howitzer or LEIG. Except that it was superior to both of these designs, because it could also double as a decent anti tank gun.
Soviets did have a real AT gun. It was called the zis-2 57mm. That gun was just as good, if not better, than the pak 40.
30 Mar 2015, 07:49 AM
#27
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Comparing zis-3 and pak-40 in terms of penetration is futile because the ZIS-3 WAS NEVER AN ANTI TANK PIECE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It was an artillery piece, like the pak howitzer or LEIG. Except that it was superior to both of these designs, because it could also double as a decent anti tank gun.
Actually, that is up for a debate and not really definitively settled up until this day
ZiS-3 field gun was used as AT gun just as much as it was used as artillery support.
Soviets did have a real AT gun. It was called the zis-2 57mm. That gun was just as good, if not better, than the pak 40.
And M-42. The most popular AT gun on soviet front, good, old M-42(inb4 "but it couldn't penetrate anything", go read up about gun pockets and soviet AT tactics).
@AssaultPlazma
Please tell me you didn't just compared IS-2 to sherman.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Mar 2015, 08:13 AM
#28
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
I can see why people were upset how would you feel if a sherman beat a Tiger I head to head?
Read more. Tiger wasn't inferior to IS2 in WW2, on the contrary. I won't explain it, I don't want to derail the thread. Let's just say that if you want reality, Tiger I should be at least as good as IS-2.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
30 Mar 2015, 08:59 AM
#29
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
troll failed
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
30 Mar 2015, 09:30 AM
#30
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
You are either a troll, or you have no idea what "stats" are.
30 Mar 2015, 10:28 AM
#31
Posts: 113
Soviets OP
Only problems I've ever encountered with ZiS is the fact that they get out much faster(if you put your little Communist mind to it, rushing T2 and hoarding manpower like the upper Soviet echelons hoarded peasant wealth) and, generally, you don't run into just one of them.
30 Mar 2015, 10:37 AM
#32
5 
Posts: 615
From the front page...
Confirmed: ZiS OP.
I know that's a KT right there and not an Ost unit but I (and many of the people I play with) favour the Pak over the Zis, by miles.
TBH Both the Zis and Pak are fine. People moan(ed) about the Pak since the nerf in the last patch, but I still think its in a good spot.
Confirmed: ZiS OP.
I know that's a KT right there and not an Ost unit but I (and many of the people I play with) favour the Pak over the Zis, by miles.
TBH Both the Zis and Pak are fine. People moan(ed) about the Pak since the nerf in the last patch, but I still think its in a good spot.
30 Mar 2015, 10:41 AM
#33
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
We have a german nationalist here. Pak40 already have superior reload speed and penetration compared to zis.
Pak40 > Zis.
Pak40 > Zis.
30 Mar 2015, 12:27 PM
#34
Posts: 738
Stealing a pak is an axis players worst nightmare
Eh same could be said for USF losing a 57mm really, having an Axis player with a self spotting 40°/70 range AT gun is no fun at all
30 Mar 2015, 12:33 PM
#35
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Eh same could be said for USF losing a 57mm really, having an Axis player with a self spotting 40°/70 range AT gun is no fun at all
Especially when the 57mm's main weakness, its penetration, is not a weakness anymore when turned against the USFs paper tanks.
30 Mar 2015, 12:59 PM
#36
14 Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
Moved from Balance to Lobby
30 Mar 2015, 14:56 PM
#37
Posts: 300
Actually, that is up for a debate and not really definitively settled up until this day
ZiS-3 field gun was used as AT gun just as much as it was used as artillery support.
And M-42. The most popular AT gun on soviet front, good, old M-42(inb4 "but it couldn't penetrate anything", go read up about gun pockets and soviet AT tactics).
@AssaultPlazma
Please tell me you didn't just compared IS-2 to sherman.
no I wasnt I was trying to make a point and I guess I didnt explain it properly. Johnny seemed upset at the fact a Tiger I losses to an IS-2(whether or not he meant this from the standpoint of reality or purely ingame balance im not sure), my point was asking a Tiger I to beat an IS-2 is almost like asking a sherman to win against a Tiger. Still I respect the fact he doesnt want to derail so ill just leave at that
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30 Mar 2015, 15:01 PM
#38
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Fair enough.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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