Let's not beat around the bush, this upgrade is clearly not used much if at all whether it's because .30 cal as the mutually exclusive alternative, or whether it's because they don't perform up to par, that's the case.
So what should be done to change that?
Paratrooper Thompson
23 Mar 2015, 15:31 PM
#1
Posts: 521
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23 Mar 2015, 15:37 PM
#2
Posts: 471
One thing that definitely needs a nerf is Defensive Stance. A unit should have to be in cover for 2-3 seconds before it can use it.
23 Mar 2015, 15:38 PM
#3
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Paras with thompsons are the most deadly CQ unit.
Once you catch enemy around the corner, 2-3secs of inattention = wiped squad.
BUT...
There are less useful than 1919.
With 1919 you can camp behind green cover and shoot everything.
Thompsons force you to micro your unit more than 1919. You have to be smart, keep paras behind vision blockers and jump out stragiht at the enemy.
On wide open maps thompsons are useless tho.
Shocks at least have armor to get close.
Paras will die very fast while closing to enemy.
So...
1919s upgrade is more universal, requires less micro and don't force you to get close and lose squad.
Thompsons upgrade makes Paras most deadly CQ unit, great on maps like Stalingrad, but the utility is limited to ambushes, jumping around the corner or cleaning buliding.
If they would receive better "-X% rec. accuracy" with veterancy, thompsons would be more useful.
But still, with smart usage, they are deadly.
Once you catch enemy around the corner, 2-3secs of inattention = wiped squad.
BUT...
There are less useful than 1919.
With 1919 you can camp behind green cover and shoot everything.
Thompsons force you to micro your unit more than 1919. You have to be smart, keep paras behind vision blockers and jump out stragiht at the enemy.
On wide open maps thompsons are useless tho.
Shocks at least have armor to get close.
Paras will die very fast while closing to enemy.
So...
1919s upgrade is more universal, requires less micro and don't force you to get close and lose squad.
Thompsons upgrade makes Paras most deadly CQ unit, great on maps like Stalingrad, but the utility is limited to ambushes, jumping around the corner or cleaning buliding.
If they would receive better "-X% rec. accuracy" with veterancy, thompsons would be more useful.
But still, with smart usage, they are deadly.
23 Mar 2015, 15:38 PM
#4
Posts: 449
Thompsons are awesome, just very situational. They reward hiding and flanking unlike the a-move lmg blob. I think they work as intended once they get in position.
I'd rather Relic take another look at the long range dps of lmgs rather than touch the Thompsons.
I'd rather Relic take another look at the long range dps of lmgs rather than touch the Thompsons.
23 Mar 2015, 15:52 PM
#5
Posts: 38
Funny that you should start this thread, cause I was thinking about the Thompsons just today.
I guess the weapon itself is fine. If anything, it is OP (it has the highest close range DPS of all weapons). The problem is the squad they're on. Thompson paratroopers are basically the US version of shocks, but unlike shocks, they don't have smoke nor armor to protect them when they're closing in. Their 'Tactical Assault' ability is also not only useless, but actually counterproductive: It makes them deal even more damage (as if 'most damage' wasn't enough), while even further reducing the speed at which they could close in and increasing the damage they take (as if 'no protection at all' wasn't bad enough already).
I'd say Thompson paratroopers need to have their "Tactical Assault" ability reworked. It basically needs to be the opposite of what it is now. It should make them sprint and give them increased armor for 10 sec while making them unable to fire on the move (as is the case with all sprint abilities).
TL;DR: The problem isn't the Thompson, it's the squad they're on. Paratroopers aren't great CQC units, and their "Tactical Assault" ability make them worse, not better.
I guess the weapon itself is fine. If anything, it is OP (it has the highest close range DPS of all weapons). The problem is the squad they're on. Thompson paratroopers are basically the US version of shocks, but unlike shocks, they don't have smoke nor armor to protect them when they're closing in. Their 'Tactical Assault' ability is also not only useless, but actually counterproductive: It makes them deal even more damage (as if 'most damage' wasn't enough), while even further reducing the speed at which they could close in and increasing the damage they take (as if 'no protection at all' wasn't bad enough already).
I'd say Thompson paratroopers need to have their "Tactical Assault" ability reworked. It basically needs to be the opposite of what it is now. It should make them sprint and give them increased armor for 10 sec while making them unable to fire on the move (as is the case with all sprint abilities).
TL;DR: The problem isn't the Thompson, it's the squad they're on. Paratroopers aren't great CQC units, and their "Tactical Assault" ability make them worse, not better.
23 Mar 2015, 15:55 PM
#6
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
dont buff the thompson option, LMGs in general are just too fucking good.
23 Mar 2015, 16:00 PM
#7
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
the thompson, give me two more plz 
but yeah, there is literally 0 drawback to 30's, whereas as mentioned, the thompson can be situational, i only prefer them 'cos they make a cool sound and can wipe squads if you get a really good flank, which is fun. tactical assault is cruel if you can managed to jump some low health retreating squads. also, 3 survival instinct bulletins can be a lot of fun.
23 Mar 2015, 16:11 PM
#8
17 
Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
@OP: all LMGs are too strong. Paratrooper Thompsons are good, but only on certain maps (eg Semoskiy) or if you are good at setting up flanks (ie your tactics are more sophisticated than A-moving everywhere). I like 'em as they are.
One very good use of Tactical Assault is to kill retreating squads. If your paratroopers are on the retreat path, pop Tactical Assault and focus the squad. Like the Thompsons generally, it is an ability that is useful only in certain situations, but is far from useless.
TL;DR: The problem isn't the Thompson, it's the squad they're on. Paratroopers aren't great CQC units, and their "Tactical Assault" ability make them worse, not better.
One very good use of Tactical Assault is to kill retreating squads. If your paratroopers are on the retreat path, pop Tactical Assault and focus the squad. Like the Thompsons generally, it is an ability that is useful only in certain situations, but is far from useless.
23 Mar 2015, 16:22 PM
#9
Posts: 1702
Why would thompsons need buff if thompsons are already the better upgrade?
23 Mar 2015, 16:58 PM
#10
Posts: 63
I'm of the opinion LMGs are too efficient in their current forms and as a result you don't see things like Thompson Airborne, PGs(as assault units), Assault Grenadiers, Sturmpioniers, or conscript ppsh(unless in huge numbers).
This type of unit is far too susceptible to small arms fire for most usages outside of micro-intensive flanks and surprise attacks. Losing even a single model in a squad will seriously diminish the units effectiveness and force early retreats. Shocks have armour to help close the distance as well as smoke for mgs and retreat cover but these units are left out to dry once the enemy takes note of them.
These units are just too fragile to be used outside of early game and niche encounters; however, buffing their defenses I feel would necessitate a change in their effective ranges so they don't steamroll long range infantry but can still pull their weight in a wider range of encounters.
This type of unit is far too susceptible to small arms fire for most usages outside of micro-intensive flanks and surprise attacks. Losing even a single model in a squad will seriously diminish the units effectiveness and force early retreats. Shocks have armour to help close the distance as well as smoke for mgs and retreat cover but these units are left out to dry once the enemy takes note of them.
These units are just too fragile to be used outside of early game and niche encounters; however, buffing their defenses I feel would necessitate a change in their effective ranges so they don't steamroll long range infantry but can still pull their weight in a wider range of encounters.
23 Mar 2015, 17:43 PM
#11
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I'm of the opinion LMGs are too efficient in their current forms and as a result you don't see things like Thompson Airborne, PGs(as assault units), Assault Grenadiers, Sturmpioniers, or conscript ppsh(unless in huge numbers).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
23 Mar 2015, 17:45 PM
#12
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Thompson is amazing at sneak wiping with tactical movement.
Thompson paras are my favorite unit ingame. If someone has a Gif of Captain Speirs gunning down those prisoners from Band of brothers it would be very appropriate for how I feel about Thompsons. Just awesome. TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT.
1 Thompson para could beat 2 if not 3 squads of volks if they fought to the last man and the positioning was good.
Thompson paras are my favorite unit ingame. If someone has a Gif of Captain Speirs gunning down those prisoners from Band of brothers it would be very appropriate for how I feel about Thompsons. Just awesome. TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT.
1 Thompson para could beat 2 if not 3 squads of volks if they fought to the last man and the positioning was good.
23 Mar 2015, 18:13 PM
#13
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
dont buff the thompson option, LMGs in general are just too fucking good.
^This.
This is the sole reason why conscripts don't exist in late game and why ppsh is worst possible thing in game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Mar 2015, 18:15 PM
#14
3 
Posts: 587
Thompson is amazing at sneak wiping with tactical movement.
Thompson paras are my favorite unit ingame. If someone has a Gif of Captain Speirs gunning down those prisoners from Band of brothers it would be very appropriate for how I feel about Thompsons. Just awesome. TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT TACTICAL MOVEMENT.
1 Thompson para could beat 2 if not 3 squads of volks if they fought to the last man and the positioning was good.
Those poor volks died, and their only crime was their VET 5
23 Mar 2015, 18:16 PM
#15
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
^This.
This is the sole reason why conscripts don't exist in late game and why ppsh is worst possible thing in game.
Conscripts do exist late game, having an AT snare around is always extremely helpful, as is the ability to crew and reinforce weapon teams on the fly.
I agree that Cons need a better late game help instead of the PPsH but Shocks and Assault Guards are excellent.
23 Mar 2015, 18:17 PM
#16
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
SMG's just need to have better mid range accuracy, that's really all that needs to be changed in regards to the MP40/PPsH/Tompson.
23 Mar 2015, 18:28 PM
#17
Posts: 300
Why not just replace tactical assault with some sort of charge ability increasing running speed?
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23 Mar 2015, 18:32 PM
#18
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Conscripts do exist late game, having an AT snare around is always extremely helpful, as is the ability to crew and reinforce weapon teams on the fly.
I agree that Cons need a better late game help instead of the PPsH but Shocks and Assault Guards are excellent.
No close range dps, no mid range dps, no long range dps...
23 Mar 2015, 18:39 PM
#19
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
No close range dps, no mid range dps, no long range dps...
Both Shocks and Assault Guards use the PPsH.
23 Mar 2015, 18:46 PM
#20
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Both Shocks and Assault Guards use the PPsH.
I belive Assault Guards use only 3 Ppsh, like Cons while Shocks have 6 of them.
In the end you get Shocks - amazing close combat unit and Assault grens - pure pudding without good dps at any range.
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