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russian armor

attack ground for all mg's

26 Feb 2015, 12:46 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8



Airborne with M1919's have an AoE suppression ability.

Not really, they need to shoot at squad, not area.
And AoE suppression still works as a part of suppression on main target, if there is no target, there is no suppression, that simple.
26 Feb 2015, 22:12 PM
#42
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Suppression can still be dealt without a target, just not under current MG mechanics, so Attack Ground won't do shit. A separate ability for Suppressive Fire though could be coded to deal suppression at an area without targeting a particular unit.
26 Feb 2015, 23:24 PM
#43
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612





You can play ignorant for as long as you want, it is the second worst MG in this game after the Dishk gun. There were times it was considered OP like when instant pinning mg42s were nerfed and maxims could set up in front of them and kill off the crew. Those times have been extinct for some time.

Here are some facts:

it is the fastest setting up mg, 6 man crew, and can be merged into.

However:

Maxims have awful DPS and suppression, very narrow cone, and a vet ability that pales in comparison to the axis mgs. while sprint is not a bad ability, Maxims do not have the super human power of teleporting the gun to the next member when the guy gets killed. In many of the situations you would like to use the sprint ability to get away from danger and re set up, much of the time it gets stuck in the common "oops I dropped it" loop until it dies or at that point, is trying to retreat rather than re-position. Not only that, the maxim has to face better long ranged fire than other mgs. Nuclear rifle nades fallowed by lmg decrews them pretty easily. against OKW Stuka's are the utter bane of weapon teams and it is fully accurate. Not only that, when a shell lands on the maxim (probably de crewing it) the gun is at half health. That is a pretty big feat to get a Katushya to do that (with the exception of precision shot).

Mg34 and MG32 have not exactly amazing dps but it is nothing to laugh at. Very wide cones allow for more flexible deployment, and better suppression. the vet ability is flat out great, and both mgs have better veterancy bonus's. When running away, they pass on the gun allowing the mg to get away.

50 cal also has a wide arc, decent suppression, and really high dps. If it were not for our current meta, you would probably see these a lot.

I want to elaborate the wide vs narrow cone issue to point out something big. in the majority of situations where the maxim needs to re set up and turn, an mg42/34 and 50 cal would not even have to bother because their arcs are good. there are too many areas this is the case, it would in fact be easier to point out on maps where the maxim would be just as useful because there are so few. Basically, the only time a maxim could be better is if your mg gets flanked in epic proportions such as a conscript squad coming from behind.

In the end the reason you probably believe they are OP is because how fragile mgs are. In general it is not very difficult to neutralize an MG with any thing leaving players in frustration. Infantry blobs can for whatever reason charge into a machine gun and kill it off with little difficulty. Rifles have a built in counter to mgs after grenades are unlocked just like Grenadiers do. These external reasons however does not mean the maxim is good just because it can live slightly longer from having 6 men.
27 Feb 2015, 01:39 AM
#44
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

You can play ignorant for as long as you want, But Maxim is actually fine.
Lets tear down your misplaced argument point by point:

Maxims have awful DPS and suppression


MG-42 DPS: Near: 27.501 Mid: 11.879 Far: 2.770
M1910 Maxim: Near: 24.665 Mid: 14.617 Far: 6.106

For reference point:

M2HB: Near: 26.817 Mid: 15.585 Far: 6.022
DShK: Near: 32.418 Mid: 16.753 Far: 8.254
MG34: Near: 20.626 Mid: 8.845 Far: 2.049

Well damn it appears for all the engagement ranges that matter Maxim actually does more DPS.
Further they are targeting smaller squads so that DPS means more. Its no big secret that Maxims suppress more reliably than mg42's as well. Not to mention that the Maxim is straight better than the MG34 at all ranges.

You say that Maxim's just get rifle naded but the fact is Maxims don't have to deal with smoke
that is cheap and spammable for the most part. Rifle smoke gets put down you don't have very long to pack and move back. (The area on that smoke is absolutely ridiculous as well)

You will have more Maxims than he will have 42's in almost all cases.

Lets not forget that you can use maxim's in a building if you so choose to do so, For MG-42 its a deathtrap. Most of the time it wont even face out the correct window in time because it takes so long to switch.

That is a pretty big feat to get a Katushya to do that


Kat trucks de-crew support weapons just fine, And have a decent chance on doing it on the first wave.
While Stuka is 100% accurate id rather have the Kat truck. It reloads faster and is cheaper. Wehrmacht doesn't even get competitive rocket artillery.

I want to elaborate the wide vs narrow cone issue to point out something big. in the majority of situations where the maxim needs to re set up and turn, an mg42/34 and 50 cal would not even have to bother because their arcs are good.


Well here is the problem with this: While MG-42 has a wider arc but its traverse is crap. Its effective arc is lower than what is shown. You said yourself if you get caught with your pants down the Maxim can reface in time MG-42 has to straight retreat most of the time.

In the end the reason you probably believe they are OP is because how fragile mgs are.

I didn't say maxim was OP i said it was better :) I am not advocating for a nerf of the Maxim
I am advocating bringing other MG's up to maxims level and in the case of the 50. cal ones, Increase
their damage significantly.

Two different classes of weapon between the 30. cal mg's and the 50 cal ones.


At the end of the day the Maxim suppresses smaller groups of infantry more effectively due to its higher mobility and DPS. While MG-42 has incend rounds at vet 1 it requires you to pre activate it.
(Not to take away from how good incend rounds are)

MG-42 is hurt by its crap traverse, Low mobility, And how squishy it is, On top of having mediocre suppression.

If i could trade Maxim for MG-42 as Wehr i would no questions asked.
MG-42's drawbacks are not worth it for what you get, its biggest benefit requires vet.
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