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Luvnest's state of the game report

9 Dec 2014, 14:15 PM
#1
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20

For the lack of better words I'm just naming this thread like that. Anyway, I've been making a list of things that really annoy me since the last patch and I'd like to share, the list is a mess by now, but I try to give it some order. It's about general balance, bugs, performance and other issues. So without further ado let's get into it.

General game issues


  • abandoned vehicles feature is too random and has such a big impact on the rest of the game. It happens way too often aswell.
  • PTRS destroying team weapons

  • Heavy/destroyed engine crits, main gun destroyed crits on tanks with just a sliver of health left occur way too often. It feels like a tank has 3 extra lifes with that. Here is the best example:



  • Mines. You can say whatever you want but mines either wipe a whole squad or kill just a model of it, depending on how clumped up your squad is (possible Solution here). Too much RNG involved aswell. What about a more spread formations while units are out of cover.
  • Opening the tactical map comes with a slight delay (especially if you open it for the first time)
  • 30 munitions abilities like mines, panzerfaust, etc. should not cause heavy engine crits! Tellermines, Riegels and such are fine with me.
  • I haven't really had the chance of trying out the new perfomance fixes but I hope that these freezes + fast forwards are gone.
  • OKW: we all know the problems with this faction (manpower spam, no support weapons, just basic infantry with shrecks + blobberino and vet 5 system) and it has been discussed 20times over so I just refer to this thread and this one and lastely my own contribution to the discussion.
  • Rifle Company: Flamer upgrade for Rilemen + Vet is just wrong.
  • Company of Callins. Just a reminder. Possible solution here.
  • The whole ISU, Elephant and Jagdtiger story is really getting old by now. You can change them as many times as you want, but in the end every teamgame (and 1v1 latey) it will always come down to them. Haven't played a single teamgame without them yet. Really stale meta and I'd rather see them beeing removed. And with the release of WFA and the introduction of the Jagdtiger, something tells me that Relic doesn't realize what the issue with those super-long-ranged units is. Especially the ISU sniping whole infantry squads as well as tanks.
  • After units leave cover they bunch up for a brief moment that they are nearly standing in each other which makes dodging nades even harder
  • All this squadwipe potentional. I like how my units are set up behind cover, but they have to leave this formation on open ground and spread out a bit more!
  • I'd like to see received accuracy vet modifiers to be removed, since infantry combat in the lategame with vetted squads is just about A moving and not about positioning.
  • USF Flamer upgrades exploding all the time. On the other hand Flamer penals won't explode at all, where's the logic in that? The whole Flamer explosion thing is too much RNG aswell (it can either exlode right when the upgrade is done or later) Best Example:



  • AT weapons sniping infantry: Happens way too often. It's not unsusual seeing his own sniper beeing countersniped by an AT gun or Bazookas/panzershrecks killing several models of a squad. This needs to be reduced.
  • Side and Rear armor too much armor: Please reduce the side and Rear armor of tanks, especially of the super heavy ones, so flanking actually is rewarded.
  • Support weapons bunching up: Support weapons bunching up next to cover like crazy, making them easy targets for grenades and such. I'd rather not give support weapons the new cover alignment profile, I prefer the way it used to be.
  • Speaking of cover alignment: You can't even move to the edges of capping circles without your units jumping out of it for the sake of going to nearby cover. Very annoying indeed.
  • Repair vehicle crit: This ability needs to be reworked because it can completely negate a Tellermine within seconds.
  • canister shot, guaranteed oneshot ability.
  • RNG planes crashing and killing whole armies:



  • OKW Flak emplacement completely making recon runs useless, base defenses too strong, FLAK HQ taking on T34 with ease.
  • Attack ground on undulating maps often doesn't work because shots are always hitting the ground.


Bug issues


Some basic game mechanics are just so unreliable. Especially in a RTS you expect your units to do exactly as they are told or otherwise it can get very frusttrating. These things need to be more reliable because often they can change the tide of a game. At this point I like to mention the Community Issue Tracker which covers most of my bugs.
  • Queuing orders with shift don't work properly sometimes
  • Grenade abilities, especially the Rifle Grenade doesn't work properly. The ability triggers, but the Grenade will never come out.
  • Another thing with Grenades is, that sometimes the model who's about to throw it is reloading. This means that the Grenade is delayed by 1-2 seconds. Pls make it more reliable so if you order to throw a grenade, it triggers instantly.
  • Dead bodies (not crawlers) giving line of sight
  • Last but not least, I'd like to address the change that when throwing a Grenade, the whole squad stops instead of just the model who's about to throw it. That changed with some update, I prefered the previous way to do it.
  • They worked on the pathing algorithms in the previous patch . I haven't really had the chance to test it, but I had serious pathing issues on Minsk Pocket, and with territory points in the middle of roads.
  • Other things: Raketenwerfers stuck in buildings, Paks that won't set up properly on shattered ground (same goes for howitzers who won't fire at all).
  • Infantry Company LMG equipped squads can use Defensive stance while assaulting
  • USF mortar HT is bugged (not facing opponent while firing, sometimes not firing at all, phosphorus not working - firing regular rounds instead)
  • 251 HT has no muzzle flash / firing animation
  • Smoke dissappears (I realized it with shocktroop smoke grenades, not sure about similar abilites) when scrolling away from the point of action and returning to it afterwards. It just blocks line of sight but it looks totally awkward without the smoke.
  • Units (e.g. Grenadiers with panzerfaust) still stuck on the animation while retreating
  • Units not getting into house properly, they stand right in front of it sometimes but only go in if you order them again. This issue might need further investigation and confirmation.
  • Retreating units stuck at HQ, need 5 extra seconds to actually stop retreating
  • [u]CRAWLERS: This bug is gamebreaking. Units (especially on retreat) are getting stuck on crawling entities on the ground.
    has been fixed, but still nonretreating units can get stuck on crawlers and wait till they move out of the way
  • The model of the LMG upgrade for Grens is bugged.
  • USF Pak howitzer coded as a vehicle, which means that it can be destroyed by AT weapons and gets decrewed with still 3 members on it
  • Guard squad running around before before actually shooting
  • Vehicles disturb support weapons like HMGs from setting up which lead to complete diffrent set ups as intented
  • Tellermines (or mines in general) sometimes still has no effect on target

  • Sometimes you can't enter houses if an enemy was in there before
  • USF Bulletins Stacking for vehicles FIXED 11. Dec



  • Bulletin stacking for the Stuart


  • AT Weapons no longer have green cover. They can have red cover if they are on the road now.
  • Capture orders + retreat getting interrupted by suppresion, results in instant retreat.
  • FlakHT, HMG squads should reload when beeing out of combat. That would avoid awkward situitons where they just shoot one round and reload afterwards in battle..
  • Panzerfaust firing animation: Panzerfaust goes off 1 second after the animation is done. This is especially crucial if you want to retreat your squaud right away after the panzerfaust went off.
  • After match faceplates showing neither commander nor bulletins FIXED 11. Dec
  • Revealed mines are still revealed even after the minesweeper squad that detected it is gone.
  • OKW Flakhq shooting outside its range, same goes for the P47 Strafe


Map issues


  • I stated my point of view about map balance here already: Map improvement poll
  • Looking foward to the maps that the Rewind team made!


Questionable issues


There are tons of underused abilities and commanders that are rarely or never seen on the field. Rather than releasing new content, I'd like to see those particular things reworked. As a result we should have more diversity. The main problem is that some abilites are just significantly better than others, and you get punished for not going for them.
  • Ambush Camouflage, Counter Barrage
  • Vehicle Crew SMG upgrade.
  • Howitzers (B4 excluded)
  • German T4: It's just to expensive in 1v1s and the reward for teching up so far is minimal. In theory, that T4 would go well with a command tank doctrine, but it just doesn't work like that. I would prefer if T3,T4 would cost the same while mixing up the units in those tiers to open up new strategies. In vCoH both T3 and T4 seemed to be viable options, in CoH2 it's either T3 or Call ins (or both).
  • PPSH41 upgrade for Cons
  • SQUAD SPACING (units stand ontop of each other which leads to easy squad wipes - especially with Ostheer since most of them are 4 man squads) Example

  • German infantry doctrine, Conscript Support Tactic, NKVD, ...
    The problem is with those commanders is that you simply have to rely on you certain tech structure. I prefer going for a fast T34 and wait for an IS2 or ISU152 anytime rather than just beeing stuck with T34 especially if teching up further costs so much.
  • No skins apply to Ostheer Puma
  • Combat Engineers and Assault Engineers randomly walk away after planting a democharge
  • Conscripts walk to next sandbag after finishing their own
  • One way doors - some doors allow access to a building but no exit
  • Soviet/Ostheer battle chatter gone
  • Squads loose the icon when they are about to enter a building which just got destroyed
  • SU76, Brummbar, German Sniper, Stuart (The german snipers goes down by just one volley of conscripts, meanwhile it takes several grens to focus down a soviet sniper team..), StuG (give it a dedicated AT role with more sight and frontal armor), Jagdpanzer, SU85, Flamer HT, infantry support gun, Artillery officer (why spend tons of munitions for focus fire if can get LMGs which are ten times better), ..
  • units getting supressed in heavy cover
  • Incomplete wire, sandbags, .. blocking vehicle pathing and are to sturdy to take out.
  • Sniper stun round way to expensive for what it does.
  • Units getting stuck between sandbag and wire
  • Units getting green cover even with one side beeing wired off. (Volk sandbags + reinforced wire Screenshot)
  • Initial Sturmpio squad getting stuck at the HQ in the beginning of the game.
  • You have a hard time dodging grenades when you are in cover because the moment you leave the cover the whole squads bunches up like crazy, which leads into some easy squadwipes.
  • support weapons should have the new cover alignment profile
  • Unable to garrison the buildings due to crawlers next to it Proof
  • in-game leaderboards
  • make LMGs excell at mid to long range to prevent A-moving
  • aims for the future? what about those announcement with the partnership with the ESL that was going to happen later this year?
  • Pay2win DLC Commanders in automath
  • Spawning positions should be always closer to the middle of the map, not the one in the back of the base because you always have to walk that extra mile (in 1v1 at least)
  • The question about RNG should be: What can I do as a player to prevent a certain thing to happen rather then just letting an random event do it for you. If a player makes a mistake it's okay, but if a random event screws up things for you that leads to frusttration.
    The thing is Relic gotta decide what there game is gonna be. I mean, abondoned vehicles, planes falling of the sky, beefy tanks like the ISU and the Jagdtiger are all beautiful to watch, but in terms of balance / competitive play they are a mess. I want clear conditions in that regard.
  • 222, USF AA HT, PTRS, ... need attack ground to counter smoke, mines
  • Reverse speed for vehicles too high
  • Ostheer Pioneers have a high manpower upkeep compared to combat engineers, they could use a slight dps buff since they only harm the enemy if they are in hugging range
  • Remove the timer for self-destruct mode for OKW trucks
  • models turning so slowly when targeting a squad that it is quicker to move them in the direction you want them

9 Dec 2014, 14:24 PM
#2
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3

Nicely written luvnest!
9 Dec 2014, 14:26 PM
#3
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2

Nice read, all hail the Luvnest !
9 Dec 2014, 14:26 PM
#4
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20

Nicely written luvnest!


Thanks Moped :)

In the end I got a little lazy and just threw those statements out there. I underestimated the length of my list. :snfPeter:
9 Dec 2014, 14:27 PM
#5
avatar of Joller

Posts: 26

I agree on abandoned vehicle, really annoying.
9 Dec 2014, 14:28 PM
#6
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

There is no side armor... D:

And thus, flanking is RNG dependent and you might as well not bother sometimes.
9 Dec 2014, 14:29 PM
#7
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

Good stuff, agree with pretty much everything.

One thing I'd add to bugs, very often I click the retreat button and nothing happens...

With regards to 30 muni abilities... I've not seen them doing heavy engine crits recently at all (there may have been a patch or something to get rid of them), perhaps that's just my experience, I agree with your suggestion none the less.

(cool to see my thread mentioned :D )
9 Dec 2014, 14:35 PM
#8
9 Dec 2014, 14:42 PM
#9
avatar of StephennJF

Posts: 934

Agree all round.

Good job summarizing it all.
9 Dec 2014, 14:48 PM
#10
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12

Excellent post, luvnest. Many of the things you mentioned tend to drive competitive players absolutely crazy with frustration. I've seen many of the things you've listed happen to you on your stream, and you somehow manage to stay (to quote the Beatsteaks) "calm, cool, and collected." You provide excellent & constructive feedback.
9 Dec 2014, 14:51 PM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

Guess I can agree with most of it.

And its not surprising seeing even some top players believing there is any side armor, when even in-game tips indicate its existence.
9 Dec 2014, 14:58 PM
#12
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

There is no such thing as side armor in COh2. UNFORTUNATELLY !!
And I use this occasion to ask for it. We need Side armor values, different from rear armor values. Side armor values should be somewhat close to actual rear armor values, while rear armor values need to be lower. I am pretty sure that if the side armor would be implemented, we will see less whining from Allied fanboys. It would be realistic, it would be cool. Why don't they do it? Why this wasn't done from beginning?
9 Dec 2014, 14:59 PM
#13
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Luvnest, everything you have listed is on point. The side armor for heavy tanks and jagdpanzer has to go. I just hope Relic take this into consideration for the next patch (but its all wishes here).
9 Dec 2014, 15:02 PM
#14
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20

There...there is no side armor? My whole life has been a lie. :foreveralone:
9 Dec 2014, 15:04 PM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

There...there is no side armor? My whole life has been a lie. :foreveralone:

Ever wondered why no one ever, in any balance discussion mentioned side armor value for coh2?
Its "frontal 75% of a tank and rear part". :snfPeter:
9 Dec 2014, 15:13 PM
#16
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

Very well written and I almost completely agree.

Two things:

-Since Relic won't remove any units, why not redesign ISU/JT/ELE in CoH Jagdpanther style?

-Sov sniper needs to be adressed.
9 Dec 2014, 15:28 PM
#17
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

agree almost 100%. but if there is not received accuracy, but there is offensive accuracy bonus, won't squads go down even faster in vet inf v. vet inf situation? i'd rather see many ridiculous vet bonuses toned down.
9 Dec 2014, 15:29 PM
#18
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Perfect post, I agree 100% with everything. Videos are hilarious - Relic needs to watch this stuff & read this post.
9 Dec 2014, 15:34 PM
#19
avatar of hallolinski

Posts: 76

cynthia, can you take this in one of your meetings and discuss this one seriously?
9 Dec 2014, 15:35 PM
#20
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

Yeah nice one, something that everyone can agree with.
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