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Tiger Ace

20 Jan 2015, 03:42 AM
#81
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

IRC when it first came out it was free and stopped all resource income for as long as it was alive


Now it has a front loaded MP only cost, and reduces income afterwards


Don't forget about the 50% receive damage modifier which made it have double HP.
I'm interested why they never work with this concept with all the heavies in order to "balance" them in comparison to mediums. Give them more HP but increase the damage modifiers so you take longer to repair them.
20 Jan 2015, 03:50 AM
#82
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Don't forget about the 50% receive damage modifier which made it have double HP.
I'm interested why they never work with this concept with all the heavies in order to "balance" them in comparison to mediums. Give them more HP but increase the damage modifiers so you take longer to repair them.


It's argued that this would also give faster Veterancy to anything that hurts them. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though.
20 Jan 2015, 03:56 AM
#83
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

The biggest problem with the Ace is it's range and speed, if it had the same speed and range of it's original release without the health it wouldn't be that much of a problem I think.
20 Jan 2015, 04:55 AM
#84
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026



Don't forget about the 50% receive damage modifier which made it have double HP.
I'm interested why they never work with this concept with all the heavies in order to "balance" them in comparison to mediums. Give them more HP but increase the damage modifiers so you take longer to repair them.


... Wait, the Ace only takes half damage, too?

This is ridiculous. At this point I wish they'd just literally made it a Vet 3 regular tiger that cost more fuel than a regular tiger. :S
20 Jan 2015, 06:33 AM
#85
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181



... Wait, the Ace only takes half damage, too?

This is ridiculous. At this point I wish they'd just literally made it a Vet 3 regular tiger that cost more fuel than a regular tiger. :S

no, at launch it had 50% or maybe even 100& extra damage and 50% less incoming damage. Thats why you saw it oneshotting r twoshotting every atgun pretty much. They removed the silly damage modifiers and gave it a less punishing malus
20 Jan 2015, 17:06 PM
#86
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



It's argued that this would also give faster Veterancy to anything that hurts them. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though.

??

The xp value of the unit remains the same.
20 Jan 2015, 22:21 PM
#87
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

The xp value of the unit remains the same.


Experience comes from damage done, so if a Tiger II has more health but 50% more damage, that's also 50% more experience to any unit that attacks it. 2 hits on that would be equal to 3 hits on a normal vehicle.
20 Jan 2015, 23:49 PM
#88
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Experience comes from damage done, so if a Tiger II has more health but 50% more damage, that's also 50% more experience to any unit that attacks it. 2 hits on that would be equal to 3 hits on a normal vehicle.


Notice that i'm not 100% sure how xp works.
Shouldn't a Tiger with 100hp and 100xp value give the same xp than a Tiger with 200hp, x2 receive damage and 100xp value ?
While thinking again, they would also gain more xp from damage receive though.

I guess i'll should just ask how xp works in detail.
20 Jan 2015, 23:51 PM
#89
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612

Give it a fuel cost in between a heavy tank and a medium one. Problem with the Ace is solved
21 Jan 2015, 01:49 AM
#90
avatar of jeesuspietari

Posts: 168



Notice that i'm not 100% sure how xp works.
Shouldn't a Tiger with 100hp and 100xp value give the same xp than a Tiger with 200hp, x2 receive damage and 100xp value ?
While thinking again, they would also gain more xp from damage receive though.

I guess i'll should just ask how xp works in detail.


Veterancy is not related to the "xp kickers" you see come up when something dies, units gain veterancy from dealing and receiving damage.

XP in general counts towards command points

iirc
21 Jan 2015, 01:53 AM
#91
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

If I remember correctly, there are a number of factors that determine vet gain: the cost of the unit doing damage, the cost of the unit being damaged and the amount of damage done. That's why shreked volks vet so quickly; they're a fairly cheap squad doing large damage to more expensive vehicles.
I kind of remember them adding a mechanic where lower vet squads gain vet faster when damaging higher vet squads but I could be wrong about that. Someone please correct me if any of this is wrong though, my memory is fuzzy on it.
21 Jan 2015, 14:35 PM
#92
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Veterancy is not related to the "xp kickers" you see come up when something dies, units gain veterancy from dealing and receiving damage.

XP in general counts towards command points

iirc


Sigh, you missed the point. My point is that wether the amount of XP a unit gives is proportional to it's health or not. If there is an XP value of a unit or it's purely the mp + fuel cost.


jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2015, 01:53 AMEnkidu
If I remember correctly, there are a number of factors that determine vet gain: the cost of the unit doing damage, the cost of the unit being damaged and the amount of damage done. That's why shreked volks vet so quickly; they're a fairly cheap squad doing large damage to more expensive vehicles.
I kind of remember them adding a mechanic where lower vet squads gain vet faster when damaging higher vet squads but I could be wrong about that. Someone please correct me if any of this is wrong though, my memory is fuzzy on it.


Yep, higher veterancy gives more xp. I made a test some time ago, some Volks with shrecks against a vet3/5 vehicle and the difference was aprox 20-25%.
21 Jan 2015, 17:09 PM
#93
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198


no, at launch it had 50% or maybe even 100& extra damage and 50% less incoming damage. Thats why you saw it oneshotting r twoshotting every atgun pretty much. They removed the silly damage modifiers and gave it a less punishing malus


Pretty sure it had the same veterancy modifiers as any other German tank - after all, TA is basically a vet3 Tiger with some extra abilities (Target Weakpoint/Smoke) and stats (slightly more HP/view range).

Old vet bonuses were just crazy, but they didn't apply to TA only.
21 Jan 2015, 17:16 PM
#94
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

Updates for November 12th, 2013
-Elite Troops Doctrine
-Veterancy Rework

December 10th, 2013
-Tiger Ace

CP increased to 16
Income penalty now only last 10 minutes

Updates for February 18th, 2014
-Tiger Ace no longer reduces all resources to 0. It now reduces MP by 25% and fuel by 90% until the Tiger Ace is destroyed
Tiger Ace previous veterancy modifiers replaced with Tiger veterancy modifiers; this removes the double health and damage in exchange for faster rate of fire, improved accuracy, and improved mobility. Tiger Ace retains its increased sight range and lethal coaxial/hull machine guns
21 Jan 2015, 18:27 PM
#95
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I dont even think the Ace itself is OP. Its a more powerful Tiger not a game ending monster.

HOW ITS ACQUIRED is OP. I think most folks that play 1v1 would agree. And also why team game players so no issue with it.

Can the Ace be killed? Sure! Its a little harder than a Tiger to kill but I prefer it personally over a Panther as USF.

But allowing P4s galore and then forcing an engagement then TA to mop up is broken as hell.
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