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russian armor

What do you think of an SU-85 buff?

25 Oct 2014, 22:10 PM
#81
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

Instead of changing the SU-85, I would suggest replacing it with something on par with the Panther that also has a turret.

Like say for instance, the IS1.



25 Oct 2014, 23:27 PM
#82
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

SU-85 is almost fiiiineeeee!
It needs small front armor buff maybe, That's all.
SU-85 can deal with Pz IV, Panther, Tiger, KT... Everything except Jadgpanzer and Jadgtiger.
I would never (almost) take T34/76 over SU-85. Don't let enemy to flank and you will destroy everything.
I had even few 2v2 when my 1 SU-85 made over 20k dmg.
1 SU-85 is powerful, but 2 are deadly. Just today, Tiger showed up from woods and surprised my 2 SU-85. Result? SUs stayed alive, Tiger was burning.
SU-85 just needs good micro. Put mines in crucial spots to avoid flanking but if mines fail, use at nade or Guards to slow it down and finish with SU. Just use it range and rememeber, it's defensive/chase-down unit. You should wait for enemy to make a misteake or as chase-down unit, go after one-hit left vehicle, focus sight, shoot, kill, fall back. It's not line-breaker. It's not made for pushing.
Even IS2 is not that strong against AT as SU85 (at least Ive never had 15-20k AT dmg with single IS2). I mean If I had to face KT I would always choose 2x SU-85 over 1 IS2.
25 Oct 2014, 23:57 PM
#83
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

The only thing that I think it needs is a bit more frontal armor.
26 Oct 2014, 00:05 AM
#84
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 22:10 PMMortar
Instead of changing the SU-85, I would suggest replacing it with something on par with the Panther that also has a turret.

Like say for instance, the IS1.





Would be cool, but that would make T4 the absolute choice, so making it available after T3 + T4 is built would be great since it would be a huge fuel investment and help Soviet call in meta with a viable unit that is capable of challenging Axis medium-heavies.
26 Oct 2014, 00:50 AM
#85
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

IS1 is good option, but personally i believe, too good one, it would be better to replace it with KV-85.
26 Oct 2014, 00:55 AM
#86
avatar of Doomgunner

Posts: 74

SU-85 is almost fiiiineeeee!
It needs small front armor buff maybe, That's all.
SU-85 can deal with Pz IV, Panther, Tiger, KT... Everything except Jadgpanzer and Jadgtiger.
I would never (almost) take T34/76 over SU-85. Don't let enemy to flank and you will destroy everything.
I had even few 2v2 when my 1 SU-85 made over 20k dmg.
1 SU-85 is powerful, but 2 are deadly. Just today, Tiger showed up from woods and surprised my 2 SU-85. Result? SUs stayed alive, Tiger was burning.
SU-85 just needs good micro. Put mines in crucial spots to avoid flanking but if mines fail, use at nade or Guards to slow it down and finish with SU. Just use it range and rememeber, it's defensive/chase-down unit. You should wait for enemy to make a misteake or as chase-down unit, go after one-hit left vehicle, focus sight, shoot, kill, fall back. It's not line-breaker. It's not made for pushing.
Even IS2 is not that strong against AT as SU85 (at least Ive never had 15-20k AT dmg with single IS2). I mean If I had to face KT I would always choose 2x SU-85 over 1 IS2.


SU-85 DPS is amazing, average ROF is 4 sec(faster than Zis, almost same ROF as beta Pak 40), you just need to stop 2 things:
Flanking
Shrek blob

If I'd change anything I'd just raise front armor to 180 so that shrek(180/170/160) don't penetrate it 100% at max range.
26 Oct 2014, 01:11 AM
#87
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

guys... you're not understanding how armour works. a front armour of 180 (or less) means the shrek is always going to pen. 181 would be a tiny, tiny chance to bounce.

pen/armour=chance
26 Oct 2014, 01:14 AM
#88
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

I say it would be great ! Just a bit more speed and rotation like a little 10% more should do the trick here. I could become a real alternative in the soviet toolbox.
26 Oct 2014, 01:46 AM
#89
avatar of Doomgunner

Posts: 74

guys... you're not understanding how armour works. a front armour of 180 (or less) means the shrek is always going to pen. 181 would be a tiny, tiny chance to bounce.

pen/armour=chance


180 is shrek's far range penetration, its mid/long range pen is 170/160 so a 180 front armor would prevent some mid/long range penetration but still allow shrek to pen it 100% at close range, hence why I added "max range" in my post.
26 Oct 2014, 04:50 AM
#90
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



180 is shrek's far range penetration, its mid/long range pen is 170/160 so a 180 front armor would prevent some mid/long range penetration but still allow shrek to pen it 100% at close range, hence why I added "max range" in my post.


11-6-0% to deflect.
:It'ssomething:
26 Oct 2014, 05:16 AM
#91
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559



Would be cool, but that would make T4 the absolute choice, so making it available after T3 + T4 is built would be great since it would be a huge fuel investment and help Soviet call in meta with a viable unit that is capable of challenging Axis medium-heavies.


Exactly. Making Russian T4 viable will loosen up the ability to use other commanders. There are a lot of interesting Russian commanders you simply can't risk using due the fact there is no real non doctrinal tank to counter Axis Panther/Tiger/KT/Jagd. This would give the russians that non-doctrinal tank.
26 Oct 2014, 05:40 AM
#92
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 05:16 AMMortar


Exactly. Making Russian T4 viable will loosen up the ability to use other commanders. There are a lot of interesting Russian commanders you simply can't risk using due the fact there is no real non doctrinal tank to counter Axis Panther/Tiger/KT/Jagd. This would give the russians that non-doctrinal tank.


Not sure if Soviets would ever get a good nondoctrinal tank. Some fanboys would probably kill themselves if god forbid, the SOviets get the T34/85 as a nondoc unit
26 Oct 2014, 10:05 AM
#93
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 05:40 AMNinjaWJ


Not sure if Soviets would ever get a good nondoctrinal tank. Some fanboys would probably kill themselves if god forbid, the SOviets get the T34/85 as a nondoc unit


sure you can have the 85 nondoc when its price is increased to 500/165. because thats the only way to balance it.
26 Oct 2014, 10:21 AM
#94
avatar of b1303696

Posts: 9

Permanently Banned
Rework rus faction!! switch su 85 with t 34/85!!!

Comanders get su 85 instead of t 34/85!!!

Markt target only works for at Guns and su 85.

so on and on. switch penals to main base building!!!

nerf shoks!!!! (due to the penal switch this would be possibel)

cons have general upgrade for 2 ppsh and comanders give them aditional 2!!!

maxims with 5 man teams

Nerf guards pin more !!!!!

Sniper teams witch lose one man have to replace him for half of the price for a new sniper team.

Mutch more balance for all

also i can balance us and okw!1!!
26 Oct 2014, 10:24 AM
#95
avatar of Beinhard

Posts: 161

I would rather see a complete re-vamp of the soviet faction, and see the Su-100 take the Su-85s spot as it did in ww2 in the TD-department.

A non-doc T-34/85 would also be a welcome change.
26 Oct 2014, 10:28 AM
#96
avatar of Gluhoman

Posts: 380

Rework rus faction!! switch su 85 with t 34/85!!!

Comanders get su 85 instead of t 34/85!!!

Markt target only works for at Guns and su 85.

so on and on. switch penals to main base building!!!

nerf shoks!!!! (due to the penal switch this would be possibel)

cons have general upgrade for 2 ppsh and comanders give them aditional 2!!!

maxims with 5 man teams

Nerf guards pin more !!!!!

Sniper teams witch lose one man have to replace him for half of the price for a new sniper team.

Mutch more balance for all
U want to kill rus faction? Guards are bullshit now, they are very weak. T3485 is okay, don't need to replayce. Maybe upgrade for t3476. Market target only for at and su? Wat, are u serious? Nerf shocks? No way, they are fine.
26 Oct 2014, 10:34 AM
#97
avatar of b1303696

Posts: 9

Permanently Banned
U want to kill rus faction? Guards are bullshit now, they are very weak. T3485 is okay, don't need to replayce. Maybe upgrade for t3476. Market target only for at and su? Wat, are u serious? Nerf shocks? No way, they are fine.



You are eather low or a rus fanboy. anyway the main reason why you sream is becourse you know how strong shoks are.

my howl rework would alow al rus players to have a balanced army without a doctrine!!!!
26 Oct 2014, 10:35 AM
#98
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Rework rus faction!! switch su 85 with t 34/85!!!

Comanders get su 85 instead of t 34/85!!!

Markt target only works for at Guns and su 85.

so on and on. switch penals to main base building!!!

nerf shoks!!!! (due to the penal switch this would be possibel)

cons have general upgrade for 2 ppsh and comanders give them aditional 2!!!

maxims with 5 man teams

Nerf guards pin more !!!!!

Sniper teams witch lose one man have to replace him for half of the price for a new sniper team.

Mutch more balance for all

also i can balance us and okw!1!!


26 Oct 2014, 10:39 AM
#99
avatar of Gluhoman

Posts: 380




You are eather low or a rus fanboy. anyway the main reason why you sream is becourse you know how strong shoks are.

my howl rework would alow al rus players to have a balanced army without a doctrine!!!!
Say hello to the devil from me, German fanboy
26 Oct 2014, 10:50 AM
#100
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Overall i think the su-85 is fine.

What isin't fine is the general unflexibleness of the tier.


Because right now t4 has no reliable anti infantry.

If su-76 performed an adequate anti infantry role it would all be fine
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