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My thoughts & ideas on Conscripts

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1 Sep 2014, 15:08 PM
#361
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Conscripts have utility late game, but at a cost of getting wrecked hard. AT Nade barely pens heavy tanks, and the Molotov animation will become a liability (it is very slow). Merge is okay to keep support on the field and oorah is nice. So objectively, they do have late game use, but at a heavy cost
1 Sep 2014, 15:19 PM
#362
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 14:56 PMJaigen


Some people cannot count. volks only gain one ability for free and that's their grenade which i believe is the worst of the lot. besides that they gain nothing. so scripts are much more useful late game when it comes to utility then volks. and yet while a gren squad can fight of conscripts early game a volks squads will lose. think for that for a moment before you say volks dont need a buff.

that said soviet needs some better AI options but that needs to found in penals.


the only thing i can pick out from here is that you have no idea how to engage conscripts (a simple A+move will do) and you dont understand the utility of schrecks on a standard infantry squad that are spammed in the current meta.

numbers on the nade please, i have seen it doing nothing to my guys in green cover and completely destroying squads too. i feel that it is a pretty standard nade that is indefinitely cheap compared to what the US and sov have to pay for.

these guys are perfect for taking and drawing fire, with the occasional flanking with nades. seems to me like you are using these guys as assault troops instead of sturms or other elite infantry. not to mention with mg34+volks+strums+raketen and a puma can muscle through most strategies that the allies can throw at them.
1 Sep 2014, 15:24 PM
#363
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Conscripts have utility late game, but at a cost of getting wrecked hard. AT Nade barely pens heavy tanks, and the Molotov animation will become a liability (it is very slow). Merge is okay to keep support on the field and oorah is nice. So objectively, they do have late game use, but at a heavy cost


They don't have any use if they must be at close range to make some damage, even more when all the enemy infantry lategame does great at long/medium range. If I'm going to lose more than half of the squad just getting close, at least the reinforce cost or upkeep should be significantly lower.

They don't have grenades and ATnade just bounce in every vehicle with better armor than a halftrack. Only merge has some use lategame.

Volks on the other hand can chip damage from afar to enemy units, and shrecks are wonderful. I can't understand how any player can complain about them, especially if compared with PTRS or Zooks.

1 Sep 2014, 15:29 PM
#364
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

That's what im saying. Their utility isn't that great once the high dps and heavy tanks roll out. They don't even meatshield that well since they are so weak.

Definitely agree about Panzerschreck>PTRS
1 Sep 2014, 16:57 PM
#365
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

It doesn't matter how the units necessarily compare to each other, because if you're talking late game, the entire faction is ostensibly facing off with the entire faction, not some silly 1v1 vacuum.

Panzerfausts and AT nades alike have small enough ranges for infantry pathing to have trouble moving in range offensively. However, a gren or conscript by a Pak/ZiS can effectively stop a flanking advance.

They're used defensively, not offensively. Offensively using AT nades or panzerfausts is silly, because they inflict status effects more than damage, and using them offensively just makes it super easy for the damage to get repaired if the advance fails. Not to mention it requires forcing your units to rush at gun barrels out of cover.
1 Sep 2014, 18:04 PM
#366
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 15:24 PMGreeb


They don't have any use if they must be at close range to make some damage, even more when all the enemy infantry lategame does great at long/medium range. If I'm going to lose more than half of the squad just getting close, at least the reinforce cost or upkeep should be significantly lower.

They don't have grenades and ATnade just bounce in every vehicle with better armor than a halftrack. Only merge has some use lategame.

Volks on the other hand can chip damage from afar to enemy units, and shrecks are wonderful. I can't understand how any player can complain about them, especially if compared with PTRS or Zooks.



Because you need at least two Volks squads to do considerable damage to any vehicle and they don't snare. I'd take Cons AT nade every day.
Besides Volks have Shreks because OKW doesn't have proper AT gun.
1 Sep 2014, 18:15 PM
#367
avatar of Alpharius

Posts: 56


Besides Volks have Shreks because OKW doesn't have proper AT gun.

I'd say choosing between Shreks+Raketenwerfer and Zis+Scripts I would take the first one.
1 Sep 2014, 18:37 PM
#368
avatar of ludd3emm

Posts: 292

Now if all the OKW fanboys think that Cons beat Volks every day at the week, lets just make Relic swap out the stats and the abilities + the veterancy between these two squads and just keep the names.
1 Sep 2014, 18:54 PM
#369
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2182 | Subs: 2



Because you need at least two Volks squads to do considerable damage to any vehicle and they don't snare. I'd take Cons AT nade every day.
Besides Volks have Shreks because OKW doesn't have proper AT gun.


I honestly do not understand why you're whining about Folk? Playing for OKW I do 2 squad folk and they get 5 levels vet in any game. expensive shrecks? OKW now get 100% of ammunition and did not experience them difitsit. Even buying fuel I have enough ammunition Artillery shelling and grenades.
1 Sep 2014, 19:00 PM
#370
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Volks can't fight equal fight early game, Cons can. That's why Volks are getting a buff.

Also I was playing Soviets lately and Cons are handling things pretty well. You don't need to refer to Maxim spam to deal with OKW neither.
1 Sep 2014, 19:09 PM
#371
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2182 | Subs: 2

try a grenade, very helpful. And more micro control. conscripts - garbage. Only adequate ai squad Soviets - shock troops. from here spam maxims.
Let's change - give the Soviets Folk and take away conscripts. I will be very happy
1 Sep 2014, 19:11 PM
#372
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

I think there was a thread showing how conscripts beat volks at extremely close ranges. but volks beat cons at far range
1 Sep 2014, 19:13 PM
#373
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130


I'd say choosing between Shreks+Raketenwerfer and Zis+Scripts I would take the first one.


Are you done talking out of your ass or are you going to explain it?
1 Sep 2014, 19:15 PM
#374
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

try a grenade, very helpful. And more micro control. conscripts - garbage. Only adequate ai squad Soviets - shock troops. from here spam maxims.
Let's change - give the Soviets Folk and take away conscripts. I will be very happy


yeah lets ignore the molotovs hey. or are you done cherry picking ad look at the overall picture.
1 Sep 2014, 19:19 PM
#375
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 19:15 PMJaigen


yeah lets ignore the molotovs hey. or are you done cherry picking ad look at the overall picture.


Everyone ignores them because in the lategame, a single obersoldaten squad will wipe 3 to 4 models off a consquad during the throw animation, usually resetting the throw and forcing a retreat. And then even if by some miracle the molotov goes off, your enemy just walks to the side and the thing does nothing.

Cheapest, slowest throwing, shortest range nade with least effect on impact is a good equation for uselessness in the unit rich, munition rich, manpower poor endgame which is where everyone is saying cons are worse than useless.
1 Sep 2014, 19:38 PM
#376
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Volks can't fight equal fight early game, Cons can. That's why Volks are getting a buff.


That's why you support your volks with the first Sturmpios, who unlike Combat engineers doesn't need to return to base to build anything and can be use offensively.

Sturmpio+volks own conscripts+engineers
As OKW you have an average long range unit plus an incredible short range unit, meanwhile soviets only have average short range units in the first minutes of the game.
Well microed, I think impossible to lose your first engagement against a soviet player if he did a T0 start. Buffing volks will only make that even easier for the OKW player, making T0 start useless and encouraging sniper/maxim spam.
1 Sep 2014, 19:52 PM
#377
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

That's why you support your Cons with Maxim.
1 Sep 2014, 19:55 PM
#378
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 19:19 PMCruzz


Everyone ignores them because in the lategame, a single obersoldaten squad will wipe 3 to 4 models off a consquad during the throw animation, usually resetting the throw and forcing a retreat. And then even if by some miracle the molotov goes off, your enemy just walks to the side and the thing does nothing.

Cheapest, slowest throwing, shortest range nade with least effect on impact is a good equation for uselessness in the unit rich, munition rich, manpower poor endgame which is where everyone is saying cons are worse than useless.


Sorry but I wouldn't even try to engage Obers with Cons
1 Sep 2014, 20:00 PM
#379
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41



Sorry but I wouldn't even try to engage Obers with Cons


You can replace obers with Fallschirms, Jaeger Light Infantry, PGs, vet3 LMG grens, g43 fusiliers. They all have the damage output in a single squad to completely decimate a conscript squad due to the insanely long throw animation, even if you ignore the usual runup requirement due to the range.

As for maxim support, to be honest "soviet combined arms" where you have a few maxims and a few more cons is like the easiest possible thing to beat as OKW. Maxim spam is more powerful without a question, but straight up con spam is also more powerful purely because many players seem to have some illogical fear of making more than 3 volks in the early game which means you can potentially push them off the map before the 1/2cp (mg34/fusilier) doctrinal infantry with pure numbers. But realistically if you actually want to win against OKW, you're going with T1 and multiple snipers. Every single game, every single map.
1 Sep 2014, 20:07 PM
#380
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 19:38 PMGreeb


That's why you support your volks with the first Sturmpios, who unlike Combat engineers doesn't need to return to base to build anything and can be use offensively.

Sturmpio+volks own conscripts+engineers
As OKW you have an average long range unit plus an incredible short range unit, meanwhile soviets only have average short range units in the first minutes of the game.
Well microed, I think impossible to lose your first engagement against a soviet player if he did a T0 start. Buffing volks will only make that even easier for the OKW player, making T0 start useless and encouraging sniper/maxim spam.


fuck that an unit that cost nearly the same as another unit should perform around the same. but it doesnt not only do scripts own volks they posses more utility. i can say asymmetrical balance but that doesnt ad up also tier 0 zero start is an abomination that should never be mentioned you spammer so get some combined arms
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