Jaeger Light Infantry
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21 Aug 2014, 04:29 AM
#1
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
As a German player I believe this particular unit is a bit too strong. I've seen it beat two conscript squads that advanced under cover to close range. That's 4 men chasing off 12 men. I believe this unit needs a slight tone down in terms of awesomeness (I don't know what should really be done but chasing away 12 men just seem fake). This guys put everyone except the Obersoldaten to shame.
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21 Aug 2014, 04:44 AM
#2
Posts: 952
They've got deceptively high close range DPS, despite having carbines instead of assault rifles- charging JLI is pretty much the same as rushing towards Panzergrenadiers/sturmpios/Falls, and accordingly they cost about as much as panzergrens and sturms. judging from statistics, staying at mid-range would allow two conscript squads to win pretty decisively.
Making up for their high DPS is a lack of direct damage output in every other aspect- no grenades (not even infiltration nades) or fausts. Sprinting is nice against weapon teams and guards/squads with LMGs, but other than that what you see is what you get. I don't think they're particularly overpowered, especially without vet since they're quite fragile for cost.
Making up for their high DPS is a lack of direct damage output in every other aspect- no grenades (not even infiltration nades) or fausts. Sprinting is nice against weapon teams and guards/squads with LMGs, but other than that what you see is what you get. I don't think they're particularly overpowered, especially without vet since they're quite fragile for cost.
21 Aug 2014, 04:44 AM
#3
Posts: 467
For some reason I think they have very good close range DPS, which shouldn't be the case considering they have G43s. The same for Panzerfusiliers with G43s I think. In CoH1 the G43s were very effective at long range and would tear up anything plus they had that awesome suppressing ability (great for pinning flamers)
21 Aug 2014, 05:04 AM
#4
Posts: 952
For some reason I think they have very good close range DPS, which shouldn't be the case considering they have G43s. The same for Panzerfusiliers with G43s I think. In CoH1 the G43s were very effective at long range and would tear up anything plus they had that awesome suppressing ability (great for pinning flamers)
In this game G43s are classed as carbines (no bearing on reality, but this is COH2). Carbines excel at close/mid range for cost- for example the Grenadier G43 outstrips the normal Kar98k at close, improves somewhat at mid, and drops DPS at max range. With Panzerfusiliers the same applies- huge close range boost, negligible long range increase in performance. So with JLI, closing in is not advisable with normal rifle-armed squads. There's no similarity with the COH1 upgrade, so drawing parallels with the original G43 is kinda pointless.
Of course the downside is that besides Guards, nothing in the Soviet arsenal can really take advantage of the 'poor' performance of carbines at range, since their units are all geared to close range anyway... but that's a separate issue to be dealt with.
21 Aug 2014, 05:08 AM
#5
Posts: 476
In this game G43s are classed as carbines (no bearing on reality, but this is COH2). Carbines excel at close/mid range for cost- for example the Grenadier G43 outstrips the normal Kar98k at close, improves somewhat at mid, and drops DPS at max range. With Panzerfusiliers the same applies- huge close range boost, negligible long range increase in performance. So with JLI, closing in is not advisable with normal rifle-armed squads. There's no similarity with the COH1 upgrade, so drawing parallels with the original G43 is kinda pointless.
Of course the downside is that besides Guards, nothing in the Soviet arsenal can really take advantage of the 'poor' performance of carbines at range, since their units are all geared to close range anyway... but that's a separate issue to be dealt with.
On the other hand, if you don't have guards, you will probably have Shocks, who own JLI.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
21 Aug 2014, 05:13 AM
#6
Posts: 952
On the other hand, if you don't have guards, you will probably have Shocks, who own JLI.
JLI can kite by sprinting away, then firing, for a short period of time... but you're right in that Shocks thrash JLI upside down when that runs out.
21 Aug 2014, 05:37 AM
#7
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
They've got deceptively high close range DPS, despite having carbines instead of assault rifles- charging JLI is pretty much the same as rushing towards Panzergrenadiers/sturmpios/Falls, and accordingly they cost about as much as panzergrens and sturms. judging from statistics, staying at mid-range would allow two conscript squads to win pretty decisively.But conscripts can barely hit anything at mid range, so the chances of the JLI beating them is still high yes?
Making up for their high DPS is a lack of direct damage output in every other aspect- no grenades (not even infiltration nades) or fausts. Sprinting is nice against weapon teams and guards/squads with LMGs, but other than that what you see is what you get. I don't think they're particularly overpowered, especially without vet since they're quite fragile for cost.
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21 Aug 2014, 06:13 AM
#8
Posts: 1248
But conscripts can barely hit anything at mid range, so the chances of the JLI beating them is still high yes?
Engage them at long range and i believe they'll win against JLI.
21 Aug 2014, 06:52 AM
#9
Posts: 1740
Just another question about the Jägers: In the unit description it clearly says that the Jägers cannot capture territories (only UNcapture them) but atm they can take the points just like every other unit.
Is this a bug?
Is this a bug?
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
21 Aug 2014, 06:55 AM
#10
Posts: 952
Just another question about the Jägers: In the unit description it clearly says that the Jägers cannot capture territories (only UNcapture them) but atm they can take the points just like every other unit.
Is this a bug?
They used to have a completely different role (3 man permanent sprint glass cannon squad) but they were changed to the more standard 'elite infantry' type (albeit with some interesting abilities). Relic just never changed the descriptions on them (I don't think they changed the description for Partisans either, now that those can capture points too).
21 Aug 2014, 07:08 AM
#11
Posts: 306
They used to have a completely different role (3 man permanent sprint glass cannon squad) but they were changed to the more standard 'elite infantry' type (albeit with some interesting abilities). Relic just never changed the descriptions on them (I don't think they changed the description for Partisans either, now that those can capture points too).
What the hell, that seems awesome. Why didn't they keep that?
Now it just feels like a normal assualt rifle unit.
21 Aug 2014, 07:16 AM
#12
Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1
They have no AT. But they may need a cost increase.
21 Aug 2014, 07:21 AM
#13
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Engage them at long range and i believe they'll win against JLI.
The damage output difference between conscripts and jaegers is effectively the same at all ranges (jaegers outdamage 2x cons at point blank, and still outdamage 2xconscript squads at max range) so every choice that involves having conscripts square off against them is bad. The 2 conscripts will effectively always bleed atleast as bad as the single jaeger squad, unless they start the fight off by managing to focus fire a model down almost immediately.
21 Aug 2014, 07:24 AM
#14
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
What the hell, that seems awesome. Why didn't they keep that?
Now it just feels like a normal assualt rifle unit.
They were decapping very quick. People basically were running from on point to another decapping everything and due to perma sprint just avoiding /escaping every engagement, effectively denying resources and fuel till a Ostwind hits the field.
They were cheap with only 220 mp and a blob turned to be very deadly able to wipe most on retreat due to their sprint.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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21 Aug 2014, 07:26 AM
#15
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
They have no AT. But they may need a cost increase.Cost increase is needed IMO. Just because you got 4 G43 doesn't mean you should be able to beat 12 Mosin with confidence.
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21 Aug 2014, 07:27 AM
#16
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Cost increase (or tone down in awesomeness) is needed IMO. Just because you got 4 G43 doesn't mean you should be able to beat 12 Mosin with confidence.
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21 Aug 2014, 07:32 AM
#17
Posts: 306
They were decapping very quick. People basically were running from on point to another decapping everything and due to perma sprint just avoiding /escaping every engagement, effectively denying resources and fuel till a Ostwind hits the field.
They were cheap with only 220 mp and a blob turned to be very deadly able to wipe most on retreat due to their sprint.
But still, the concept of that was cool, a 3 man guerrilla squad.
It's just the balance that needed adjusting. They should have at least kept the design.
21 Aug 2014, 07:51 AM
#18
Posts: 1702
Compared to the rather mediocre panzergrenadiers, these guys really are crazy.
21 Aug 2014, 08:07 AM
#19
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Cost increase is needed IMO. Just because you got 4 G43 doesn't mean you should be able to beat 12 Mosin with confidence.
So why are shocks then allowed to beat 3 volks squads?
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
21 Aug 2014, 08:20 AM
#20
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
So why are shocks then allowed to beat 3 volks squads?
1. Shocks don't spawn from any building on the map
2. Shocks cost more than 340MP
3. Shocks actually need to get in close to do anything because they only have shovels instead of guns.
4. They don't beat 3 volks, except just maybe if you put all your volks in one huge blob next to a corner, and the shocks round that corner. Otherwise I'd always bet on the 3 volks winning the fight with ease.
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