What the hell are you supposed to do vs ET? Winning early engagements doesn't mean anything as Ost can sit back with some MGs and Vet 3 Grens and camp until TA...at which point it's insta-surrender.
I absolutely HATE this match up.
1v1 ET and Tiger Ace
17 Aug 2014, 23:21 PM
#1
Posts: 440
18 Aug 2014, 00:15 AM
#2
1 
Posts: 889 | Subs: 1
If they spend fuel to vet early, they likely won't be rushing T2. I would suggest 3 Riflemen, Lieutenant, MG, AA Half-track, and maybe even an M20.
It sounds like your complaint is centered around several vet squads, which costs a ton of fuel. If you stick with light vehicles for a while and clean him up, you can really punish him for it. If you are expecting a long game, plant some mines with your M20. If he builds a pak, you can use 2 vehicles to attack it. Use your MG/AA-HT to keep grens away, M20 flanks Pak.
Again, this advice assumes the guy really invested in his vet squads.
It sounds like your complaint is centered around several vet squads, which costs a ton of fuel. If you stick with light vehicles for a while and clean him up, you can really punish him for it. If you are expecting a long game, plant some mines with your M20. If he builds a pak, you can use 2 vehicles to attack it. Use your MG/AA-HT to keep grens away, M20 flanks Pak.
Again, this advice assumes the guy really invested in his vet squads.
18 Aug 2014, 00:38 AM
#3
Posts: 210
Yep it a should go back to the old system where it would stop all income.
18 Aug 2014, 02:02 AM
#4
Posts: 1248
Yep it a should go back to the old system where it would stop all income.I'm sorry honey but that won't happen honey because Tiger Ace is not as durable as the prepatch Tiger Ace and doesn't have insane damage like it used to. Tiger Ace is just a vet 3 tiger with TWP.
18 Aug 2014, 04:42 AM
#5
Posts: 210
I'm sorry honey but that won't happen honey because Tiger Ace is not as durable as the prepatch Tiger Ace and doesn't have insane damage like it used to. Tiger Ace is just a vet 3 tiger with TWP.
yeah sadly I know this will never happen. I do feel like the tiger ace has only a small draw back for how good the unit is at the moment, its just a massive cherry on top of a well round and powerful faction. By the time the TA is available you can already have a couple of p4 with a strong unit composition.
Tiger ace Vs USF = GG
on that note has anyone actually beaten the TA as USF?
18 Aug 2014, 08:04 AM
#6
Posts: 395
Aren't you supposed to beat him before TA? TA is fairly late at 15 CPs. By then, easy 8s and other fun things should tear him up. If he's still standing...you got outplayed mate.
It's true that he has plenty of units to make a complete faction even without the TA, but if he is making use of fuel for his elite troops, that means you can make use of fuel for things that kill said elite troops. Paks come out so send out a pack howie, WP arty, m8 scott, ect. Seriously I think rifle company is your best bet here.
You want to play strategically. Confine him to a nice, circular defensive position, probe it at multiple points, drop WP (or some other kind of arty) on the ATGs or any other unit of importance. Alternatively, he will creep back into a defensive circle, at which point you can just arty him to death.
Seriously just arty. Infantry company works well for this and mech company has good arty. You should have 2/3 of those companies anyway.
Not saying it's easy, but thats how you do it
It's true that he has plenty of units to make a complete faction even without the TA, but if he is making use of fuel for his elite troops, that means you can make use of fuel for things that kill said elite troops. Paks come out so send out a pack howie, WP arty, m8 scott, ect. Seriously I think rifle company is your best bet here.
You want to play strategically. Confine him to a nice, circular defensive position, probe it at multiple points, drop WP (or some other kind of arty) on the ATGs or any other unit of importance. Alternatively, he will creep back into a defensive circle, at which point you can just arty him to death.
Seriously just arty. Infantry company works well for this and mech company has good arty. You should have 2/3 of those companies anyway.
Not saying it's easy, but thats how you do it
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
18 Aug 2014, 10:01 AM
#7
Posts: 747
yeah sadly I know this will never happen. I do feel like the tiger ace has only a small draw back for how good the unit is at the moment, its just a massive cherry on top of a well round and powerful faction. By the time the TA is available you can already have a couple of p4 with a strong unit composition.
Tiger ace Vs USF = GG
on that note has anyone actually beaten the TA as USF?
I have at least twice. Double Jacksons ftw
amis 
Seriously, if he plays the ace defensively it's really hard. I usually try to isolate it from it's supporting squads, if you manage to do this the ace is almost easy prey for the jacksons.
18 Aug 2014, 10:48 AM
#8
Posts: 65
Here my answers to a similar post at the official forums:
How to fight early Vet 3 units: As Soviets, get snipers, maxims, mines, mortars, Molotov’s, flame throwers... . Just dont get mass inf.
As Americans it is a bit harder, dig in and try to hold at least 1/3 of the map and one fuel point. Then rush to the Lieutenant, because the HMG, the M20 and the AAHT dont care much about Vet and it is hard for the german player to get a Pak and 4 Vet3 units to counter it, because that costs him around about 150 fuel.
If a axis player has full pop cap (with the Ace) he gets only 75 MP per minute. If the axis player only has the ace he gets 186 MP per second. That means if you can play around the ace and kill his other stuff (that is hard to replace because of the low MP income), the Ace will end without support and is easy to beat. Just dont bash your head against a supported Ace.
How to fight early Vet 3 units: As Soviets, get snipers, maxims, mines, mortars, Molotov’s, flame throwers... . Just dont get mass inf.
As Americans it is a bit harder, dig in and try to hold at least 1/3 of the map and one fuel point. Then rush to the Lieutenant, because the HMG, the M20 and the AAHT dont care much about Vet and it is hard for the german player to get a Pak and 4 Vet3 units to counter it, because that costs him around about 150 fuel.
If a axis player has full pop cap (with the Ace) he gets only 75 MP per minute. If the axis player only has the ace he gets 186 MP per second. That means if you can play around the ace and kill his other stuff (that is hard to replace because of the low MP income), the Ace will end without support and is easy to beat. Just dont bash your head against a supported Ace.
18 Aug 2014, 10:49 AM
#9
Posts: 210
Aren't you supposed to beat him before TA? TA is fairly late at 15 CPs. By then, easy 8s and other fun things should tear him up. If he's still standing...you got outplayed mate.
It's true that he has plenty of units to make a complete faction even without the TA, but if he is making use of fuel for his elite troops, that means you can make use of fuel for things that kill said elite troops. Paks come out so send out a pack howie, WP arty, m8 scott, ect. Seriously I think rifle company is your best bet here.
You want to play strategically. Confine him to a nice, circular defensive position, probe it at multiple points, drop WP (or some other kind of arty) on the ATGs or any other unit of importance. Alternatively, he will creep back into a defensive circle, at which point you can just arty him to death.
Seriously just arty. Infantry company works well for this and mech company has good arty. You should have 2/3 of those companies anyway.
Not saying it's easy, but thats how you do it
yeah totally agree apart from a couple of points.
1.the fact that USF is a 20 min win or you lose is so shit, and personally think that this has to fixed. current meta as Ost and okW seems to a camp fest and just wait for the late game where usf will get rolled.
2. usf arty is SHIT, pack howi, gun carriage howi, mortar ht all under perform and call in art are expensive as hell.
19 Aug 2014, 03:57 AM
#10
Posts: 395
yeah totally agree apart from a couple of points.
1.the fact that USF is a 20 min win or you lose is so shit, and personally think that this has to fixed. current meta as Ost and okW seems to a camp fest and just wait for the late game where usf will get rolled.
2. usf arty is SHIT, pack howi, gun carriage howi, mortar ht all under perform and call in art are expensive as hell.
1. Fully agree and I bitch up a storm about this
2. Eh it's gotten better with patches
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
19 Aug 2014, 04:42 AM
#11
Posts: 1248
Here my answers to a similar post at the official forums:
How to fight early Vet 3 units: As Soviets, get snipers, maxims, mines, mortars, Molotov’s, flame throwers... . Just dont get mass inf.
As Americans it is a bit harder, dig in and try to hold at least 1/3 of the map and one fuel point. Then rush to the Lieutenant, because the HMG, the M20 and the AAHT dont care much about Vet and it is hard for the german player to get a Pak and 4 Vet3 units to counter it, because that costs him around about 150 fuel.
If a axis player has full pop cap (with the Ace) he gets only 75 MP per minute. If the axis player only has the ace he gets 186 MP per second. That means if you can play around the ace and kill his other stuff (that is hard to replace because of the low MP income), the Ace will end without support and is easy to beat. Just dont bash your head against a supported Ace.
Here's the thing most people usually get the elite troops doc for stun nades, g43, and tiger ace. So don't expect him to spam elite troops.
19 Aug 2014, 04:42 AM
#12
Posts: 1248
yeah totally agree apart from a couple of points.
1.the fact that USF is a 20 min win or you lose is so shit, and personally think that this has to fixed. current meta as Ost and okW seems to a camp fest and just wait for the late game where usf will get rolled.
2. usf arty is SHIT, pack howi, gun carriage howi, mortar ht all under perform and call in art are expensive as hell.
USF gun carriage, pack howi, and priest is not shit.....
19 Aug 2014, 21:04 PM
#13
Posts: 738
Aren't you supposed to beat him before TA? TA is fairly late at 15 CPs. By then, easy 8s and other fun things should tear him up. If he's still standing...you got outplayed mate.
It's true that he has plenty of units to make a complete faction even without the TA, but if he is making use of fuel for his elite troops, that means you can make use of fuel for things that kill said elite troops. Paks come out so send out a pack howie, WP arty, m8 scott, ect. Seriously I think rifle company is your best bet here.
You want to play strategically. Confine him to a nice, circular defensive position, probe it at multiple points, drop WP (or some other kind of arty) on the ATGs or any other unit of importance. Alternatively, he will creep back into a defensive circle, at which point you can just arty him to death.
Seriously just arty. Infantry company works well for this and mech company has good arty. You should have 2/3 of those companies anyway.
Not saying it's easy, but thats how you do it
Not everyone has DLC commanders... Double jacksons are probably your only chance in hell of countering a TA with vanilla commanders and even then the odds are stacked massively in his favour. If you have a Vet AT gun or two it can help but on any remotely urban map that's out of the question.
The range and fire rate are the main problems for me, effectively the TA allows wehr to play your own game at sniping armour from range and come out on top. You can try rushing in but without the likes of a decent medium tank that's just asking for your tank destroyers to be one shotted by a teller mine or becoming shrek bait.
19 Aug 2014, 21:47 PM
#14
Posts: 658
hi guys,my english not good.... mmmm as u said about late game usf....20min....hey stop!i have seen many good usf players that they played well late game..... dont u have priest for cleaning the map? or fucking range jackson
? full vet infantry!. you hope that fix it!is it justice that usf late game fix and change? so we are going to have... op begining& op late game i think we should add some shotgun to rifleman.
? full vet infantry!. you hope that fix it!is it justice that usf late game fix and change? so we are going to have... op begining& op late game i think we should add some shotgun to rifleman.
21 Aug 2014, 10:13 AM
#15
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
If a axis player has full pop cap (with the Ace) he gets only 75 MP per minute. If the axis player only has the ace he gets 186 MP per second. That means if you can play around the ace and kill his other stuff (that is hard to replace because of the low MP income), the Ace will end without support and is easy to beat. Just dont bash your head against a supported Ace.
Agree with that, you shouldn't try to engage the Tiger first but kill his infantry. He will have severe issues to reinforce his squads. Next action is to succeed to damage his engine if possible.
Let's be honest, that's a gamble, but killing his infantry and capping objective flags will turn the Tiger own odds to your advantage, A tiger cannot cap and is slow when engine damaged.
So in the middle of that, if it works, the player behind the tiger should try some stupid actions and here is your windows to take him.
Does not work all the time for sure, but that's how I mentally plan to act vs it.
30 Aug 2014, 07:23 AM
#16
Posts: 122
Well the stun nades are only very good against buildings. They seem to be the best nades for that purpose in the game.
The tiger ace won't arrive until probably 30+ mins, so you'll have plenty of time to prepare.
In most games I'd have several m8a1s to wipe his inf and harass his tanks. It can kite effectively since it's fast and does decent AT.
Combine that with P47 rocket strafes which can destroy tigers with assistance of 1/2 jacksons. The biggest threat to a jackson is the stun ability.
The tiger ace won't arrive until probably 30+ mins, so you'll have plenty of time to prepare.
In most games I'd have several m8a1s to wipe his inf and harass his tanks. It can kite effectively since it's fast and does decent AT.
Combine that with P47 rocket strafes which can destroy tigers with assistance of 1/2 jacksons. The biggest threat to a jackson is the stun ability.
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