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Explain Again how Elite Troops is not OP?

28 Jul 2014, 22:03 PM
#21
avatar of Bob Loblaw

Posts: 156



Mmm.

You said originally that Troop Training is good because it lets you play aggressively and just push the enemy off the map. The fuel disadvantage isn't a disadvantage if you "just take their fuel". That's what I took from your original point.

You can't play aggressively and defensively at the same time. Luring M3A1s and Snipers into traps and pulling back is inconsistent with holding more than your share of the map.

AT guns and munitions for mines take way longer to hit the field than most reasonable counters to elite infantry anyways. AT guns are actually delayed an additional 25 fuel due to your training opening anyways.

If I deploy the counters and take my half of the map then I'm just ahead in fuel basically. I don't have to play aggressively against elite troops. It's the opposite of what you want to do. Elite Troops is always behind if they use Troop Training. They're the ones who are supposed to have the incredible early game. If I just stall into my superior and faster mid-game then I can just turn the game on it's head pretty quick.

I don't want to get into some sort of theory-crafting war but I will say that everytime I see a vet 3 unit in the first minute I am a-okay with that because that player will be behind the rest of the game for little gain.

edit: Basically, I just completely contend that "Vet 3 Tier 1 Ostheer Units Guarantee Map Control". It's not guaranteed at all against an even opponent.


I guess it just gets to me since I usually do con con con molotovs con and then more cons or maybe support building to at gun with at nades and I attack an important point as soon as I can get three cons evenly spaced out with molotovs. Usually a pretty safe, bland opening where I win or lose the first skirmish depending on micro but gren spam with troop training shuts this down no problem.
28 Jul 2014, 22:03 PM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I´m fine with the doctrine (even with Elite troop training*) but TA still feels stupid.
Even if you are cut off from fuel, you can always rely on getting a vet3 tiger into the field.

On teamgames at least it has the drawback of having extra support to deal with it. On 1v1 it can transform on an undeserved extra challenge.

*Now you get more xp from vetted squads. So you can catch up faster.

PD: i guess you do 4-6con spam. You can tweak it a bit into 3/4 maxims or 2Cons (see vet3 squad) CE, T1, M3s, or retreat CE and go for snipers.
28 Jul 2014, 22:27 PM
#23
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

Because the hard counters like suppression/sniper/scout car don't give a fuck about vet.
29 Jul 2014, 21:36 PM
#24
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2014, 18:09 PMTobis
What if Elite Troops is the next commander rotation commander?


Damn, I must be a genie or something. Have fun Bob, I know I'm not looking forward to seeing this commander everywhere.
30 Jul 2014, 00:38 AM
#25
avatar of Bob Loblaw

Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2014, 21:36 PMTobis


Damn, I must be a genie or something. Have fun Bob, I know I'm not looking forward to seeing this commander everywhere.


Good call. Ehhhh nonsense intensifies.
30 Jul 2014, 00:44 AM
#26
avatar of Part time commie

Posts: 99

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2014, 21:36 PMTobis


Damn, I must be a genie or something. Have fun Bob, I know I'm not looking forward to seeing this commander everywhere.


It's him, get him boys.
30 Jul 2014, 01:09 AM
#27
avatar of Corp.Shephard

Posts: 359

Mmm.

I'll certainly try Elite Troops while it's free.

Who knows? Perhaps my mind will change.
30 Jul 2014, 07:08 AM
#28
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Imo its still crazy OP because you can tech T3 and get out several P4s, stugs, or ostwinds (whatever is needed) and still call in the Ace for no fuel cost. Being able to force a big engagement and seal the deal with the ACE is crazy strong. Besides, what is stopping you from just suiciding the ace, wiping as much as you can in the process, and getting your income back? All you have to do to justify the cost is roll it straight to your enemy's base. Its terrible game design.


Yeah, your fuel economy shouldn't recover until at least 5 minutes after you lose an Ace. Manpower too, but not as long. You should be punished for losing it, not rewarded.
30 Jul 2014, 07:14 AM
#29
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

I use the elite training only on mg 42 and pz 4s.The 3 vet mg 42 vs usa is gold.
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