Hi folks,
i am just curious about your opinions about the Assault Grenadiers from the Mechanized Assault Doctrine. Personally i find them extremly poor and weak and are not even compareable to Shock Troops from the Russians that have more punch, better survivability and scale kinda good into lategame. Also the Grenade Shower is first coming after Battle Phase 2 which makes clearing out early MGs kinda hard, especially since they should do that kinda good.
I would like to use them more, but they are just too weak to have them from time to time for a flanking action just to force retreat, because the MP40 deals so low damage. First i expected them to be more like Shock Troops or Sturmpioniere.
Also the Veterancy Boni are somehow low and only a small buff to the weapon accuracy at Vet 3 - i think they should gain more armor with Vet 1, better accuracy with Vet 2 and not like it is currently so that they scale also a bit more.
So, do you think Assault Grenadiers need a buff?
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Spielführer
Assault Grenadiers
26 Jul 2014, 19:24 PM
#1
Posts: 318
26 Jul 2014, 19:27 PM
#2
Posts: 207
A buff? prehaps but they will need a price increase if so, as it stands i very very rarely see them and their current state is the most likely reson
Ill prob get banned for saying this........such is COH2.org lolz
Ill prob get banned for saying this........such is COH2.org lolz
26 Jul 2014, 19:29 PM
#3
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Back when shock troops were 1 cp people cried for them to be back at 2 cps because they were too good for 1 cp, which was true.
Assault grens having the power of shock troops at 0 cp? With sprint? Not going to happen.
Edit: They do scale a bit poorly. But their initial stats are fine for their cost. If you want a unit with more punch, go for panzergrenadiers which come out at about the same time as shock troopers.
Assault grens having the power of shock troops at 0 cp? With sprint? Not going to happen.
Edit: They do scale a bit poorly. But their initial stats are fine for their cost. If you want a unit with more punch, go for panzergrenadiers which come out at about the same time as shock troopers.
26 Jul 2014, 19:30 PM
#4
Posts: 2053
Its not wise to make more than one because they dont scale at all - but they are great at their role since they are a CP 0 unit with sprint, and they can flank and rush countering squads. Ostheer has panzergrenadiers to do anything above.
26 Jul 2014, 19:31 PM
#5
Posts: 1571
Assgrens: Assgren spam is good against US especially in early game. They are good in forested/close quarters maps. The US takes a while to get proper suppression weapons outside of rear echelon volley. They become somewhat obsolete in late game and they are bad in wide open maps like steppes.
They are thoroughly poor against Soviets. I never build them if I am fighting soviets.
I don't think that they need a change because they are a situational type of unit. The rest of mechanized is really strong.
They are thoroughly poor against Soviets. I never build them if I am fighting soviets.
I don't think that they need a change because they are a situational type of unit. The rest of mechanized is really strong.
26 Jul 2014, 19:31 PM
#6
Posts: 318
I would not mind a price increase, i would also pay 350MP or something like that if they would be real Assault Grenadiers or "Sturmgrenadiere" that were normally battle hardened veterans with the most combat experience and good equipment (MP40, Stielhandgranate etc.)
26 Jul 2014, 19:39 PM
#7
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
I don't think they are worth making right now. Either give them faust or a slight received accuracy buff.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
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The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
26 Jul 2014, 19:43 PM
#8
Posts: 3293
i think that need work but it might be that the mp40 needs work maybe a similar buff like the ppsh.
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26 Jul 2014, 19:48 PM
#9
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
On a side note, even if assault grens are underperforming, I think the last thing the mechanised assault doctrine needs is a buff. From a 1v1 perspective, it completely outclasses the other Wehrmacht doctrines.
26 Jul 2014, 20:02 PM
#10
Posts: 318
Well, make it CP1 or 2 but make them scaleable. And Panzergrenadiers do not have the grenade shower and sprint.
26 Jul 2014, 20:03 PM
#11
Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1
Id say make them 1 or 2 cps, and let them scale better with vet. Right now vet 3 still lose to unvetted shocks.
26 Jul 2014, 20:29 PM
#12
Posts: 2053
If a shock squad approaches my ass grens, i use their grenades and aim at their path of travel so they blow up at their feet.
Ass grens are situational, not all purpose units.
Ass grens are situational, not all purpose units.
26 Jul 2014, 21:39 PM
#13
Posts: 318
Assault Grenadiers are not situational, they are junk currently. If you compare them with Sturmpioneers (not doctrinal), Assault Engineers from US, Shock Troopers from Soviets etc.
26 Jul 2014, 21:58 PM
#14
Posts: 210
Ass grens are super effective against USF, as said above when they are in close combat with riflemen they shine. Seriously what do you want Ober's at 0cp for free. For a 0cp and there cost they are fine plus the commander the are in is bloody good
26 Jul 2014, 22:09 PM
#15
Posts: 318
Seriously what do you want Ober's at 0cp for free.
First of all i want that you read my post carefully and complete. As i stated before, i would like to see them on par with Assault Engineers (that are better), Shock Troopers (really good and scale good into lategame), Sturmpioneers or stuff like that. I would not mind a price increase if the Assault Grenadiers would be useful.
26 Jul 2014, 22:15 PM
#16
Posts: 1571
^^
I actually have found Assgrens (vs. US only) to be better than Assengineers at running down units. The 5th man is a substantial benefit and has saved many a squad wipe.
The Assengineers suffer from having to deal with suppression from MG42s, mortars, and the like. Against OKW, they have to deal with fast sturmpioneers/fusiliers/MG34s which cut them up pretty badly.
The Assgrens IIRC do a lot of damage up close; 42 damage. This is a little less than some of the other units but it is enough to get the job done; plus they have 80 more HP w/ 5th man.
I actually have found Assgrens (vs. US only) to be better than Assengineers at running down units. The 5th man is a substantial benefit and has saved many a squad wipe.
The Assengineers suffer from having to deal with suppression from MG42s, mortars, and the like. Against OKW, they have to deal with fast sturmpioneers/fusiliers/MG34s which cut them up pretty badly.
The Assgrens IIRC do a lot of damage up close; 42 damage. This is a little less than some of the other units but it is enough to get the job done; plus they have 80 more HP w/ 5th man.
26 Jul 2014, 23:04 PM
#17
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
this is actually one of my favorite doctrines to use against americans. like sturm pios, they will beat rifles if you can close the distance safely.
then the pgren ht call in is hell for any rifle that doesnt have vet1 yet. ive killed captains with it quite a few times just by pushing them around to stop them from firing. once theyre down to 2-3 men, they retreat and you finish them off by chasing. works great on lieutenants as well.
stug e is also amazing now. if you havent tried using one recently, i highly recommend it. its amazing at kiting.
then the pgren ht call in is hell for any rifle that doesnt have vet1 yet. ive killed captains with it quite a few times just by pushing them around to stop them from firing. once theyre down to 2-3 men, they retreat and you finish them off by chasing. works great on lieutenants as well.
stug e is also amazing now. if you havent tried using one recently, i highly recommend it. its amazing at kiting.
27 Jul 2014, 02:50 AM
#18
Posts: 210
First of all i want that you read my post carefully and complete. As i stated before, i would like to see them on par with Assault Engineers (that are better), Shock Troopers (really good and scale good into lategame), Sturmpioneers or stuff like that. I would not mind a price increase if the Assault Grenadiers would be useful.
OK first of all
1:assault engineers have very different role, they are a very squishy unit and being a 4 man squad are not very durable.
2:to have a unit like shocks at 0cp's is plan stupid and is not balanced at all, as we have seen in the past 1cp shocks and the assault grens when the commander was first released.
3: Too make assault gren as good as shock would mean that they require a cp change say 2cp's.this would completely fuk up this commander design, which was designed to use with the ability to use without teching.
4
nly reasons ass grens and any infantry that does have any AT weapon (Penals, Shocks, ass engies and so forth) dont scale well into the later game is because they vulnerable vehicles and infantry engagements kinda change as the game progresses with the use of Armour and less 1v1 engagements. which mean they take on more of a support role of vehicles (COMBINED ARMS. maybe more long ranged engagements in later game as well?personally i think ass grens are awesome at what they do and they are right where they should be as they are NOT a SHOCK UNIT.
27 Jul 2014, 03:43 AM
#19
Posts: 231
People have already said it, but Assault Grenadiers are very effective against Americans. They are difficult to use, given their short effectiveness range, and lack of armor.
However, if used correctly they perform very well early game, and then shift well into a late game durable capper and weapon team re-manning squad.
They are not a mainline infantry unit, and you really shouldn't be getting more than 1 or 2 of them in almost any situation.
Plus as others said, they're in one of the strongest doctrines against USF. Stug E has no real counter until Shermans or Jacksons, and with HEAT rounds you can even kill those with Shrek/Pak support. And the Tiger is almost completely uncounterable by Americans without huge investments and specific doctrines.
However, if used correctly they perform very well early game, and then shift well into a late game durable capper and weapon team re-manning squad.
They are not a mainline infantry unit, and you really shouldn't be getting more than 1 or 2 of them in almost any situation.
Plus as others said, they're in one of the strongest doctrines against USF. Stug E has no real counter until Shermans or Jacksons, and with HEAT rounds you can even kill those with Shrek/Pak support. And the Tiger is almost completely uncounterable by Americans without huge investments and specific doctrines.
27 Jul 2014, 03:58 AM
#20
Posts: 1702
Plz no 0 Cp shocks
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