I knew right off of the bat that fusiliers were over the top great, they are used extensively by many of the top players such as lolipop and captSprice to an amazing effect. The only saving grace against them was the munition starved faction that really hampered how many squads had them. With the new 100% income, generally all of them that come out can easily afford to purchase the upgrade to G43s and nothing short of a maxim spam or the AA half track can stop them. a 6 man gren squad with G43s, their DPS is insane plus this commander also has the sturm officer. G43s already have one of the best accuracy in terms of weapons profile and then you add the sturm officer bonus, Units even in cover just melt.
I think they need a slight tone down in damage, whether it is accuracy or damage decrease I am not sure.
Panzerfüsilier's over preformed before, Broken now
24 Jul 2014, 13:37 PM
#1
Posts: 612
24 Jul 2014, 13:42 PM
#2
Posts: 1571
I was under the impression that the devs already knew about the strong fusiliers and even commented on them. I was then surprised to see a buff.
IT should be noted that their AT rifle grenade homes now.
IT should be noted that their AT rifle grenade homes now.
24 Jul 2014, 13:46 PM
#3
Posts: 807
Well before patch I didn't have the impression they over perform and didn't tried them after the patch. Six men with G43s are quite impressive, but they are fairly thin and killable.... aren't they? Could they keep pace with a M19... riflemen blob?
24 Jul 2014, 13:54 PM
#4
Posts: 81
Only 2 of the men get G43's for a 6 men squad.
They just require flank attacks and artillery barrages to successfully counter.
They're going to require some "skill" to defeat, the OKW was known for they're elite infantry...
They just require flank attacks and artillery barrages to successfully counter.
They're going to require some "skill" to defeat, the OKW was known for they're elite infantry...
24 Jul 2014, 14:12 PM
#5
Posts: 612
http://www.coh2.org/topic/19116/sturm-offizer-and-panzerfusilier
You get 3. They are incredibly cost effective. Flanks and arty work as well on them as any other unit but the problem is they will have almost as many units of these as you do. amazing units vs good units even in a flanking situation does not spell well. Ever tried flanking an Obers unit with one? it doesnt end well.
As for your arty solution good luck getting enough early to counter. Panzer fusiliers come out at 2 CPs. at this time you can get mortars, that is it.
You get 3. They are incredibly cost effective. Flanks and arty work as well on them as any other unit but the problem is they will have almost as many units of these as you do. amazing units vs good units even in a flanking situation does not spell well. Ever tried flanking an Obers unit with one? it doesnt end well.
As for your arty solution good luck getting enough early to counter. Panzer fusiliers come out at 2 CPs. at this time you can get mortars, that is it.
24 Jul 2014, 14:14 PM
#6
Posts: 1571
They are a strong, spammable unit with consistent DPS and high hp/durability (2 extra models) against indirect fire. With the 3 x G43s, they do a lot more damage at close and medium range. Without them, they generally do damage like a 4 1/2 man grenadier squad.
24 Jul 2014, 14:15 PM
#7
Posts: 612
Well before patch I didn't have the impression they over perform and didn't tried them after the patch. Six men with G43s are quite impressive, but they are fairly thin and killable.... aren't they? Could they keep pace with a M19... riflemen blob?
Try them out one time. Just paying the 290 alone is worth it because you handedly out dps rifle squads. plus you get AT nades, something the faction lacks.
As for the 6 man and killable, yes. they are un armored grens. they die at the same rate just about every infantry unit in this game dies at. The notable feature of this squad is that they are a 6 man unit on the Axis side. Even when you take casualties just like Soviet units the fusiiliers are still combat effective. Think about it, you loose two models and you are left with..... a four man gren squad still. Plenty good on the battle field.
24 Jul 2014, 14:18 PM
#8
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
They are even better now than they were before. Not only can they get G43s more easily, but their AT rifle nade now also tracks targets and has the longest range compared to Sov/USF/Wehr equivalents.
@ssheini: As far as I know the fussiliers have no armor or accuracy modifiers, they do however have 80 hp just like other infantry.
@ssheini: As far as I know the fussiliers have no armor or accuracy modifiers, they do however have 80 hp just like other infantry.
24 Jul 2014, 14:25 PM
#9
Posts: 81
I think it honestly fits in well with the commander "Breakthrough Tactics", its a very combative adaptive unit that, when placed in cover assaulting a cp with a sturm officer... can be quite effective.
But hey, USF has M8's E 8's and now allies have strapped nuclear warheads to the back of Katushays, so I honestly don't think pazerfussilars should be much of a problem for any decent player.
At lest for me they're not
But hey, USF has M8's E 8's and now allies have strapped nuclear warheads to the back of Katushays, so I honestly don't think pazerfussilars should be much of a problem for any decent player.
At lest for me they're not
24 Jul 2014, 14:35 PM
#10
Posts: 542
Without their upgrade they are like a better grenadier squad for also higher cost. In this condition they seem fine to me. Unupgraded Riflemen lose to them in long range (as they should), but they do significantly more damage in close range so they should win against Panzerfüsiliers here.
With their upgrade for 90 munition they get 3 G43s and a sight upgrade. The G43s make the Panzerfüsiliers stronger on close and medium range, but it barely is an upgrade on long range. That means that an upgraded Rifleman squad with a LMG will beat them in long range, while it gets more close in close range. Again I see no issue there.
Since you also get a sight range upgrade for Panzerfüsiliers which is quite helpful, I might agree with a slight cost increase for the upgrade, but as long as they don't do any changes to Riflemen I see no reason why Panzerfüsiliers should get a combat power nerf.
With their upgrade for 90 munition they get 3 G43s and a sight upgrade. The G43s make the Panzerfüsiliers stronger on close and medium range, but it barely is an upgrade on long range. That means that an upgraded Rifleman squad with a LMG will beat them in long range, while it gets more close in close range. Again I see no issue there.
Since you also get a sight range upgrade for Panzerfüsiliers which is quite helpful, I might agree with a slight cost increase for the upgrade, but as long as they don't do any changes to Riflemen I see no reason why Panzerfüsiliers should get a combat power nerf.
24 Jul 2014, 14:43 PM
#11
Posts: 208
They were very strong with their old vet but I think they are fine now.
If anything I have been floating lots of munitions if I don't get this unit so that is a problem with the faction and not Panzerfüsiliers
If anything I have been floating lots of munitions if I don't get this unit so that is a problem with the faction and not Panzerfüsiliers
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
24 Jul 2014, 14:54 PM
#12
Posts: 84
Buff to OKW blob was much needed. They didnt melt everything as fast as many hoped for.
24 Jul 2014, 16:25 PM
#13
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Check out that weapon profile doe
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
24 Jul 2014, 17:01 PM
#14
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
im not sure what copy pasting my graphs again is supposed to prove
24 Jul 2014, 17:04 PM
#15
Posts: 2053
im not sure what copy pasting my graphs again is supposed to prove
I understand it that a big problem is the squad size. Its a 6 man squad capable of great DPS. Its usually reserves for four man squads, and the fact that the squad costs 290 mp..
24 Jul 2014, 17:34 PM
#16
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
im not sure what copy pasting my graphs again is supposed to prove
Your graphs kick butt. If they weren't so good I wouldn't have to use them. It shows per weapon damage and the range at which it can propagate the damage. Thanks for all the help.
6 man squad
+
3 x G43's
+
3 x Kar98k
=
A crap on of damage that can be applied at all range groups.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
24 Jul 2014, 17:40 PM
#17
Posts: 39
This graph makes it sound as if jeager light infantry outperform fusiliers. I haven't found that to be the case O.o
24 Jul 2014, 17:42 PM
#18
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
This graph makes it sound as if jeager light infantry outperform fusiliers. I haven't found that to be the case O.o
Close range and on the move they actually do.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Jul 2014, 17:48 PM
#19
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
glad you like them so much. paratroopers without any upgrades will perform just about the same as panzerfusiliers at long range though, worse at mid range, but much better at close range.
based on the conversion rate of munitions to mp, 290 + 90*1.6 = 434 mp for a g43 fusilier squad. i believe fusiliers do have a slight edge in reinforce cost, but id say paratroopers are better for dps. excelling at mid range is somewhat odd. a player that really knows the units will exploit their close range weakness.
they do at all ranges, with or without g43s. the difference gets greater the closer the range is. but panzerfusiliers have 6 men, which means their dps drops slower with each death
based on the conversion rate of munitions to mp, 290 + 90*1.6 = 434 mp for a g43 fusilier squad. i believe fusiliers do have a slight edge in reinforce cost, but id say paratroopers are better for dps. excelling at mid range is somewhat odd. a player that really knows the units will exploit their close range weakness.
This graph makes it sound as if jeager light infantry outperform fusiliers. I haven't found that to be the case O.o
they do at all ranges, with or without g43s. the difference gets greater the closer the range is. but panzerfusiliers have 6 men, which means their dps drops slower with each death
24 Jul 2014, 17:51 PM
#20
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
What is the Y axis in the graph?
The graphs seem to say that without the upgrade, rifles are actually better, and with the 90muni upgrade only half the fusilier squad does more DPS than their rifle counterparts. For 60 muni rifles can get a BAR or an m1919 which I bet puts things pretty equal.
The graphs seem to say that without the upgrade, rifles are actually better, and with the 90muni upgrade only half the fusilier squad does more DPS than their rifle counterparts. For 60 muni rifles can get a BAR or an m1919 which I bet puts things pretty equal.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
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