Login

russian armor

Maxims vs the OKW

PAGES (9)down
23 Jul 2014, 16:09 PM
#121
avatar of Mathias_Bras

Posts: 83

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 14:13 PMKatitof


Infantry gun hardcounters maxims.


It used to before they nerfed the officer. Oh and I guess the gun got nerfed too. I'm just ticked about the officer nerf :(
23 Jul 2014, 16:15 PM
#122
avatar of DarthBong420

Posts: 381

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 15:25 PMwongtp


but its solid, do anything else or ask to buff soviets and the entire forums will rage upon you, because ze vatherland is supreme.

maybe its because the two patches before wf were buffs to the entire sov army.
23 Jul 2014, 17:57 PM
#123
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1



Soviet T1 does not do well against OKW in team games outside of the opening minutes of the game. You have to get T2 soon after and any units that you have left out of T1 are dead weight during the remainder of the match.


somewhat true, but i think youre understating how powerful that early t1 is. very few people had scavenge before today, and falls were 3 cps away from being a threat to your snipers. depending on the map, there may also be few options for spawning them behind you.

even if you dont want snipers, you penal cars with flamers are extremely strong. ive used it against okw even when they build a rakaten and it just takes a little micro to decrew it safely. then the rest of his squads are typically forced to retreat and you can easily wipe a squad or two. not only will the okw lose squads, they will also lose map control. even if theyre able to recover and kill your cars, i have no problem with teching to t2 after that. this doesnt necessarily delay tanks either. if youre waiting for call ins, youll be floating fuel waiting for cps.


jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 15:27 PMKatitof


They definitely go poof against obersoldaten+anything to draw initial fire.

Its effective to the point where I laugh during wiping maxims unable to even retreat.


you just said this in another maxim thread:

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 11:43 AMKatitof


Do I even need to point out how silly it is to expect 240mp to hold out against 1000+mp?
With suppression modifiers included, its still as if one-two full squads were firing at you, yes, you will die, yes, you should because of sheer resource difference.


seems a little contradictory to me
23 Jul 2014, 18:14 PM
#124
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1157

Right. The thing that is really pissing me off with Maxims vs OKW, is you can see your opponent has all Maxim bulletins and is clearly going to spam them, yet this does not help you, because THERE IS NO EASY WAY to counter many maxims.

The ISG can help, but comes late, when you have little map control left.

Ive just tried spamming volks, and its a real uphil struggle to get anywhere.

All this, just for spamming maxims, its all TOO EASY.


When someone heavily invests in one type of unit, there should be a clear hard counter.. its how this game works.. but right now, even when you know from the start of the game whats coming, you cant plan for it, its just lame as.
23 Jul 2014, 18:17 PM
#125
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 17:57 PMwooof

you just said this in another maxim thread:



seems a little contradictory to me


Please tell me, what exactly contradicts here?

In other thread I've said MGs won't stop much greater menpower investment.

In the 2nd post I confirmed that.

What exactly is contradicting here with what?
Because to me it seems rather consistent.
24 Jul 2014, 22:13 PM
#126
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

Right. The thing that is really pissing me off with Maxims vs OKW, is you can see your opponent has all Maxim bulletins and is clearly going to spam them, yet this does not help you, because THERE IS NO EASY WAY to counter many maxims.


PLAY BETTER.

Beating heavy machine gun usage is about POSITIONING. Flanking, using your flak halftrack in a fashion so it doesn't get killed by an AT gun but still effectively forces off maxims. Using your sturm pios to slaughter them on the flank.

This isn't Starcraft where I can just say "Build X and Y hard counters when you see him build maxims". You just have to play smarter than him, which is how it should be in any competitive game.

25 Jul 2014, 00:45 AM
#127
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 18:17 PMKatitof


Please tell me, what exactly contradicts here?

In other thread I've said MGs won't stop much greater menpower investment.

In the 2nd post I confirmed that.

What exactly is contradicting here with what?
Because to me it seems rather consistent.


The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.
25 Jul 2014, 00:59 AM
#128
avatar of DarthBong420

Posts: 381



The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.



25 Jul 2014, 01:22 AM
#129
22 Aug 2014, 03:41 AM
#130
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
Maxim spam still has not been addressed vs OKW and OH as well. Its simply far too effective.
22 Aug 2014, 04:01 AM
#131
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665



The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.


I don't see the contradiction either? From how I read he just said Obers easily kill Maxims if something draws fire, which is true and makes sense. Since he also mentioned those were his own Obers, I didn't read it as ''OMG NERF OBERS'' either.

I mean, I can't speak for him, but people are acting as if he was told, and I just don't see the argument.

Maxims ARE a bit of a pain as OKW, but it's very map dependant. Most maxim spammers (the few I personally see) don't position them well, allowing you to draw fire whith Volks while your trusty Sturms flank them. Flak HT also come pretty soon and lays waste to them. ISG is a bit hit and miss, but with some RNG it does wonders.

And once you're in late game, elite OKW infantry shuts them down pronto. Worst comes to worst? Skuka and watch them being sent to communist hell.
22 Aug 2014, 04:28 AM
#132
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself. He's implying how good Obers are at dealing with maxims.(Side note- Obers are good vs nooby maxim spammers but if you're playing someone with experience it's not that difficult to deal with obers). All depends on who you play.
22 Aug 2014, 05:40 AM
#133
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2014, 04:28 AMVonIvan

That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself. He's implying how good Obers are at dealing with maxims.(Side note- Obers are good vs nooby maxim spammers but if you're playing someone with experience it's not that difficult to deal with obers). All depends on who you play.


Obers are a moot point and now they are fairly easy to kill after 2 x armour nerfs.

Since Maxims give such an early advantage its already GG by the time Maxims have full map control. Vonivan I would have thought you would attest to this??

I have seen some of your games from a week ago. You basically push OKW all the way back to spawn and the opponent has little or no chance to do anything as he is fuel starved and by that time KV8 or IS2 is out.

LEIG is basically hopeless atm. its not evne worth half its price. In fact its not worth getting at all since it puts you at a disadvantage. OKW HT needs it set up time removed and it also needs to stop hitting the ground otherwise its basically useless getting this thing
22 Aug 2014, 06:23 AM
#134
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



Obers are a moot point and now they are fairly easy to kill after 2 x armour nerfs.

Since Maxims give such an early advantage its already GG by the time Maxims have full map control. Vonivan I would have thought you would attest to this??

I have seen some of your games from a week ago. You basically push OKW all the way back to spawn and the opponent has little or no chance to do anything as he is fuel starved and by that time KV8 or IS2 is out.

LEIG is basically hopeless atm. its not evne worth half its price. In fact its not worth getting at all since it puts you at a disadvantage. OKW HT needs it set up time removed and it also needs to stop hitting the ground otherwise its basically useless getting this thing

It depends on the map Warthrone, maps like crossing, ferma winter, and La Gleize are excellent for maxims, while others such as summer ferma, farmlands, semois summer are not maxim-ideal maps. It also depends on the opponent and how he operates, while maxims are effective against OKW they are actually much easier to deal with as Ostheer(on balanced maps). Reason I'm saying maxims aren't invincible anti-okw killing machines is because they can be countered and dealt with. I have played every opponent you can think of that uses maxim spam, and so has the best OKW player atm, Vindicare. It's not that hard to deal with when you think T2 and position certain units well while defending a certain portion of the map. I even used my own maxim spam strat against him and he knows how to counter it well unfortunately. Everyone else I've played though has a rough time with it. I myself know the weaknesses to it but do not wish to list them as it would make my strat less(effective) in automatch. But I can give hints, such as good play with an early flak hf.(You'd be surprised at how effective it is when you use it defensively against an aggressive Soviet player)(There is an even better way but I ain't listin' that). That ofc isn't enough to fully counter it but it's part of a strategy you can use. Vindicare has his own special way of dealing with it too, which if you want to know what it is, ask him for it. So, Obers can effectively deal with maxims(late game only obviously), early game you need to adapt to deal with early maxim spam.(It's not as hard as some people point it out to be). While I agree the maxim is a powerful suppression unit, it isn't an OP one. If I were to say the Maxim is OP, I would also have to save the MG34 as being OP.
22 Aug 2014, 06:30 AM
#135
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2014, 06:23 AMVonIvan

It depends on the map Warthrone, maps like crossing, ferma winter, and La Gleize are excellent for maxims, while others such as summer ferma, farmlands, semois summer are not maxim-ideal maps. It also depends on the opponent and how he operates, while maxims are effective against OKW they are actually much easier to deal with as Ostheer(on balanced maps). Reason I'm saying maxims aren't invincible anti-okw killing machines is because they can be countered and dealt with. I have played every opponent you can think of that uses maxim spam, and so has the best OKW player atm, Vindicare. It's not that hard to deal with when you think T2 and position certain units well while defending a certain portion of the map. I even used my own maxim spam strat against him and he knows how to counter it well unfortunately. Everyone else I've played though has a rough time with it. I myself know the weaknesses to it but do not wish to list them as it would make my strat less(effective) in automatch. But I can give hints, such as good play with an early flak hf.(You'd be surprised at how effective it is when you use it defensively against an aggressive Soviet player)(There is an even better way but I ain't listin' that). That ofc isn't enough to fully counter it but it's part of a strategy you can use. Vindicare has his own special way of dealing with it too, which if you want to know what it is, ask him for it. So, Obers can effectively deal with maxims(late game only obviously), early game you need to adapt to deal with early maxim spam.(It's not as hard as some people point it out to be). While I agree the maxim is a powerful suppression unit, it isn't an OP one. If I were to say the Maxim is OP, I would also have to save the MG34 as being OP.


Thanks for the feedback. Currently trying any effective means to counter this and im yet to find any. Especially since Zis support with maxims negate any chance i have to use Flak HT. Maxims also damage the FHT fairly well. I do think it needs to be addressed though. Obers i think were made more squishy so the high damage probably is justified them being 400mp and they cost a ridiculous sum to reinforce. They are a huge MP drain.

In the hands of a skilled player i think maxim spam is almost impossible to counter with players such as yourself playing unless you make a silly error.
22 Aug 2014, 06:37 AM
#136
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



Thanks for the feedback. Currently trying any effective means to counter this and im yet to find any. Especially since Zis support with maxims negate any chance i have to use Flak HT. Maxims also damage the FHT fairly well. I do think it needs to be addressed though. Obers i think were made more squishy so the high damage probably is justified them being 400mp and they cost a ridiculous sum to reinforce. They are a huge MP drain.

In the hands of a skilled player i think maxim spam is almost impossible to counter with players such as yourself playing unless you make a silly error.

Indeed playing against anyone who is high level these days that does t1 scout car spam(OMGPOP) or con/maxim spam(Myself) is a real pain in the arse because of our skill level, map knowledge, expected attack points, and good estimates of teching time-tables for our opponents. That also doesn't include better micro/handling of units. So it becomes a nightmare to deal with(especially on good maxim maps). Lemme message you a suggestion since you're having a hard time finding one.
22 Aug 2014, 08:14 AM
#137
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.


You've misunderstood me then, I had quantity on mind, which I clearly mentioned earlier.
You'd expect single squad attacking frontally to be stopped by pretty much any HMG. Not the case with obers against maxim(which will just keep sniping gunner), when you have two obers its simply a-move.
You wouldn't expect single MG to stop 3-5 squads rushing at it, especially if they have weapons effective at long range.

22 Aug 2014, 11:52 AM
#138
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Why Axis cant get an early vehicle to counter all these mgs opening?
Soviet has M3 and USA has Dodge, why not give something to Ostheer or OKW like these?
22 Aug 2014, 11:56 AM
#139
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Why Axis cant get an early vehicle to counter all these mgs opening?
Soviet has M3 and USA has Dodge, why not give something to Ostheer or OKW like these?


Because axis have other effective counters for it?

Mortars, snipers, infantry guns, elite infantry spawning on the backs?
22 Aug 2014, 12:19 PM
#140
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2014, 11:56 AMKatitof


Because axis have other effective counters for it?

Mortars, snipers, infantry guns, elite infantry spawning on the backs?


Those are not the counters to maxims. they are useful in supporting the actual counters but they cannot counter maxims by themselves.
PAGES (9)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

334 users are online: 1 member and 333 guests
*ncs*=EggEltee=NL
17 posts in the last 24h
43 posts in the last week
97 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44644
Welcome our newest member, felayo364
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM