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Drop Hack continues

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19 Dec 2014, 19:52 PM
#61
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

you are just saying it can't happen, it can't happen, it is your connection... just play the game and experience it yourself.. talk to pigsoup. he knows a lot about it
19 Dec 2014, 19:55 PM
#62
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 779 | Subs: 3

There is an old saying from Daddy G land: "Inverse is trying to baptize you, but you keep farting." #MVGame
19 Dec 2014, 19:59 PM
#63
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

You don't have to play to know that 90% of these accusations are completely baseless. Think about what you're suggesting. You're saying your opponents are able to disconnect you from the server at will. The only practical ways to accomplish this are crashing the server (likely very difficult and definitely very obvious), DDoSing the server (also difficult, and requires a botnet purchase), or exploiting the server code to send false messages or otherwise manipulate the connected players (extremely difficult and fairly easy to detect).

If the connection issues you're complaining about are really intentional and are really as widespread as you claim, the exploit they use to cause the disconnect would be public by now. But there's been no such exploit published. Because it doesn't exist.

Sync hacking is an issue that should be addressed. But not one person in this or any other thread has provided a single piece of solid evidence that even one arbitrated disconnect was deliberate and not a result of poor connections.
19 Dec 2014, 20:15 PM
#64
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10663 | Subs: 9

Please show respect to Red Admin, guys. :)

He has not come here to knock you - He is simply giving an explanation as to why things might happen in the techie world

Back to topic
19 Dec 2014, 20:47 PM
#65
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 19:59 PMInverse
You don't have to play to know that 90% of these accusations are completely baseless. Think about what you're suggesting. You're saying your opponents are able to disconnect you from the server at will. The only practical ways to accomplish this are crashing the server (likely very difficult and definitely very obvious), DDoSing the server (also difficult, and requires a botnet purchase), or exploiting the server code to send false messages or otherwise manipulate the connected players (extremely difficult and fairly easy to detect).

If the connection issues you're complaining about are really intentional and are really as widespread as you claim, the exploit they use to cause the disconnect would be public by now. But there's been no such exploit published. Because it doesn't exist.

Sync hacking is an issue that should be addressed. But not one person in this or any other thread has provided a single piece of solid evidence that even one arbitrated disconnect was deliberate and not a result of poor connections.



There has absolutely been a hack out there that had a "desync" button. The idea being that if you were playing a multiplayer game as soon as one player on the other team dropped/lagged out/desynced you could desync and the trust rating of your team would almost 100% be higher than that of the other teams now one-fewer combined trust so it was an almost assured win.

The programmer kept that hack up to date through a patch or two of 2.700 but lately I had not seen him responding on the thread he owned. he claimed in his thread that he wasn't tempted by a dying game. He also claimed that it was easy to protect against hacks like his but that Relic rebuffed any attempts by him to help.

I had always been curious what it looks like from the maphackers point of view... but I never did try. Not sure if it was my pure soul or the fear that I would find it too tempting and get hookd just by trying it... Nevertheless I never tried.
19 Dec 2014, 20:57 PM
#66
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 20:47 PMAvNY



There has absolutely been a hack out there that had a "desync" button. The idea being that if you were playing a multiplayer game as soon as one player on the other team dropped/lagged out/desynced you could desync and the trust rating of your team would almost 100% be higher than that of the other teams now one-fewer combined trust so it was an almost assured win.

The programmer kept that hack up to date through a patch or two of 2.700 but lately I had not seen him responding on the thread he owned. he claimed in his thread that he wasn't tempted by a dying game. He also claimed that it was easy to protect against hacks like his but that Relic rebuffed any attempts by him to help.

I had always been curious what it looks like from the maphackers point of view... but I never did try. Not sure if it was my pure soul or the fear that I would find it too tempting and get hookd just by trying it... Nevertheless I never tried.


jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 19:59 PMInverse
Sync hacking is an issue that should be addressed.

Synchacking isn't drophacking; the logistics of the two are extremely different. Synchacking is relatively easy to do and relatively hard to prevent, and it's been a problem in every RTS in existence.

This thread isn't about synchacking.
19 Dec 2014, 20:59 PM
#67
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

sync hacking or hacking.. these issues need to be punished. How do u expect us to come up with proof?? People have taken screenshots and replays. WE cant magically whip up something with the internal server stuff...

im certain synchacking and dorphacking are the same issues in coh2...
19 Dec 2014, 21:10 PM
#68
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 20:59 PMNinjaWJ
sync hacking or hacking.. these issues need to be punished. How do u expect us to come up with proof?? People have taken screenshots and replays. WE cant magically whip up something with the internal server stuff...

im certain synchacking and dorphacking are the same issues in coh2...

Sure you can. Show me you've figured out a way to reliably disconnect your opponents from games and I would be satisfied. That's proof. But you don't have that, because it's likely not possible in CoH2.

You're "certain" that drophacking is the same in CoH1 and CoH2. But it's not. The two games have entirely different network architectures, and the differences have wide-reaching ramifications. CoH1 was peer-to-peer, and all you had to do to drophack was disconnect from your opponent while maintaining your connection to the server. That isn't possible in CoH2, because you aren't connected to your opponents at all; you're connected right to the server, and the server can tell when you disconnect.

Synchacking has been a problem in every single RTS in existence, and it's probably not going away. But synchacking is also very obvious. This thread isn't about synchacking. It's about drophacking, and there is zero evidence that drophacking is actually possible in CoH2.
19 Dec 2014, 21:31 PM
#69
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

im sure the op is referring to drophacking as the same thing as sync hacking.
20 Dec 2014, 15:09 PM
#70
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

This may not mean anything but a...


It says Connection lost. Reconnecting (something like that) but yet somewhow we were able to talk by TS so it was not connection issue.
Everyone had that information.
One guy (Axis) did not have AI symbol and he wrote something weird.. Can't rememeber what it was and then defeat.
20 Dec 2014, 15:19 PM
#71
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

That's not a drophack, that's losing connection to the server. The game hadn't even started yet for God's sake.
20 Dec 2014, 15:31 PM
#72
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Ok, so why only 1 guy did not have AI symbol? And only he was able to write?

Im not saying its drop hack, Im saying that it's weird and we should not get "free" defeat. It;s should not be counted if it's about servers.
20 Dec 2014, 17:44 PM
#73
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

worst part is you get defeat lmao
21 Dec 2014, 01:17 AM
#74
avatar of Cadoc

Posts: 62

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 21:10 PMInverse

Synchacking is relatively easy to do and relatively hard to prevent, and it's been a problem in every RTS in existence.


Funny, I've never heard of it happening in other games. Hell, I played a few hundred hours of Starcraft 2 and I never had that happen. Are you simply assuming other games are as vulnerable, or have you seen the same things happen elsewhere?
21 Dec 2014, 02:48 AM
#75
21 Dec 2014, 04:42 AM
#76
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Stay turned for the next round of "Inverse" v "Some Guys with Confirmation Bias"
21 Dec 2014, 08:43 AM
#77
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Stay turned for the next round of "Inverse" v "Some Guys with Confirmation Bias"

LoL

Inverse is too patient to deal with them and answer all the questions and misconceptions. There is only one streotype I believe in and that's Canadian patience and manners. You have done man, you don't have to try anymore. Some people don't want to accept.
21 Dec 2014, 13:41 PM
#78
avatar of Cadoc

Posts: 62

Inverse, you're kinda pointlessly snarky, I was simply asking you a question. Hell, half of your examples don't even have anything to do with sync hacking (Ao2 HD sync errors were caused because the game allowed two people with different versions of the game to connect to the same lobby) and in no game was the issue as widespread as in CoH2.

It's interesting to see SC2 had that issue as well. I suppose it never became nearly as widespread because there are actual consequences to being caught cheating in that game, and losing your ranking is worse than death to some of my fellow Starcraft nerds :D
21 Dec 2014, 14:35 PM
#79
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

Actually, the only links that didn't specifically reference hacking were the two Steam links for AoE2 and the WC3 desync explanation post. The other 9 links all reference sync hacking in some form, including three separate threads on the main AoE community site that reference situations identical to those people love to complain about in CoH2.

It doesn't matter how widespread it is in other games, the fact of the matter is it's been an issue forever, and it's not trivial to fix, nor is it trivial to detect with server-side anticheat.
21 Dec 2014, 20:27 PM
#80
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10663 | Subs: 9

Inverse can reopen this thread, if he wishes.

Pro tem I think the thread has gone far enough -patient explanations by Inverse - (thnx Inverse :) ) only pursued by a small posse of blinkered horsemen, who will not accept reason

Let's move on.....
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