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russian armor

Make conscripts and grenadiers more equal

7 Apr 2014, 09:58 AM
#1
avatar of Snulk

Posts: 1

I feel lately that i cant do much against gren and pio against anyone with decent micro, because grens beat cons at range and if u try to move in closer and molotov as u did prepatch to deny the grens cover so u could win the engagement, but this wont work in this patch since ur cons die as flies when they carge to molotov the grens which would be fine if grens and cons are equal at range.



So my suggestion is nerf the range dmg on grens or buff cons to scale with range dmg so they are equal to grens or give the molotov longer range so u can deny cover better.
7 Apr 2014, 11:24 AM
#2
avatar of akosi

Posts: 1734

Permanently Banned
I think it should be like Riflemen vs Volks in coh1.
7 Apr 2014, 11:34 AM
#3
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

having grens and cons being exactly the same isn't a better system imo. :)

that said i think grens need a price increase if they are going to continue to be as good as they are compared to cons, or cons need a buff :).
7 Apr 2014, 11:50 AM
#4
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

Grens should be more powerful but Conscripts should be significantly cheaper.
7 Apr 2014, 13:44 PM
#5
avatar of Mackie

Posts: 254

Grens should be more powerful but Conscripts should be significantly cheaper.


agree. imo theres nothing wrong with cons being inferior. Having to pay the same price for inferiorty though is completely ridicoulus
7 Apr 2014, 13:52 PM
#6
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Yes but now the soviets have even more micro tax to pay. Model per model scripts always were weaker than the übermensch but more models made them equal. Let's go back to that it worked.
9 Apr 2014, 20:17 PM
#7
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Conscripts should just work as inteded. They should clearly beat grens at short to mid ranges and grens should beat them at mid to long. This is not the case and this is why many players are having difficulties at the moment.
9 Apr 2014, 20:48 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Conscripts should just work as inteded. They should clearly beat grens at short to mid ranges and grens should beat them at mid to long. This is not the case and this is why many players are having difficulties at the moment.


Then what should penals do?
Because they are still overlapping with conscripts with combat role.
9 Apr 2014, 20:51 PM
#9
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

I don't want it to be 100 percent equal or else RNG will be the deciding factor, but at-least make them useful again.
9 Apr 2014, 23:03 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Then what should penals do?
Because they are still overlapping with conscripts with combat role.


Increase price and make them more mid/mid-long. Flame upgrade replaces SVT with mosin + PPSH, changing the role to CQC fighters.

As you said, actual Penals overlap roles with conscripts.
9 Apr 2014, 23:47 PM
#11
avatar of HansGoneInsane

Posts: 42

Make cons cheaper ---> 200mp should be right for what they deliver at the moment.

Make ooorah for free so that cons always have a chance to sprint towards grens and throw a molotv. Right now, especially in the beginning of the match, Soviet players spend so much ammo on ooorah, so that they don't have enough ammo left for molotvs and later on for at nades.

Make penals 240mp because penals aren't better than grens but they aren't worse either.

Nerf German pioneers or buff Soviet combat engineers. They cost the same but pios perform much much better.

Reduce Soviet t1 and t2 building times to German t1 building time, so that Soviets get similar equally strong units on the field at the same time as Germans.
10 Apr 2014, 00:04 AM
#12
avatar of morten1

Posts: 368

Make cons cheaper ---> 200mp should be right for what they deliver at the moment.

Make ooorah for free so that cons always have a chance to sprint towards grens and throw a molotv. Right now, especially in the beginning of the match, Soviet players spend so much ammo on ooorah, so that they don't have enough ammo left for molotvs and later on for at nades.


that should be viable only if conscripts can be punished at the same time and take extra damage
10 Apr 2014, 00:12 AM
#13
avatar of HansGoneInsane

Posts: 42

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2014, 00:04 AMmorten1


that should be viable only if conscripts can be punished at the same time and take extra damage


No. Cons get easily beaten by 190 mp pio squad. They are already weak enough and aren't worth more than 200mp.
10 Apr 2014, 00:19 AM
#14
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

There is no way a cons can be easily beaten by pio after the hot fix patch, and pio is actually 200 mp.
10 Apr 2014, 00:54 AM
#15
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Make cons cheaper ---> 200mp should be right for what they deliver at the moment.

Make ooorah for free so that cons always have a chance to sprint towards grens and throw a molotv. Right now, especially in the beginning of the match, Soviet players spend so much ammo on ooorah, so that they don't have enough ammo left for molotvs and later on for at nades.


Very good ideas. Although I don't know if lowering the cost for cons wouldn't just lead to the same problem which is the prevalent early game for Ostheer (grens) at the moment. The reduction of the ammo cost for ooorah might go a long way to even things out versus vanilla grens. The problems of how badly cons scale with vet into the late game and g43s and lmgs would still remain but it would make them more viable in the early game.
10 Apr 2014, 02:59 AM
#16
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

Conscripts need to be Soviet early game map presence and function primarily as a map control unit to, initially, fight against the core elements of the Germans, and later transition primarily into a supporting role for the Soviet core units and serving as the main map control unit.

For DoW2 players - Conscripts = Guardians. They'd get beaten by Tactical Marines(Grenadiers) in straight up combat, but were cheaper and much more mobile allowing for greater numbers and more map control.

Penals right now are not necessarily overshadowed, but they are not really a unit you can seriously invest in. It's often just better to build one or two more Conscripts for the map control, cheaper reinforcements and utility.

This should change. Both Conscripts and Penals need to be scaled back in their roles; Conscripts to fill the aforementioned role of map presence and mid game support, and Penals to form the main combat body that can go toe-toe with Assault Grenadiers, Panzer Grenadiers, and so on.
10 Apr 2014, 04:18 AM
#17
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

reduce cons by 20 mp. problem solved.
10 Apr 2014, 04:31 AM
#18
avatar of 1[][]

Posts: 172

Cons should definitely be able to do 'something' right. The right idea is for them to be good at what Relic says they are good for.

Cheap guys (lower MP cost?) that can flood the battlefield quickly (built in your HQ immediately - no base building).

Dude if I have to play against cons that can actually go 1v1 a gren squad and they win the attrition war, being so numerous and cheap to put out, THEN face guards...
21 Apr 2014, 23:38 PM
#19
avatar of Ossy

Posts: 42

Slight cost reduction? Yes please. Not only cons all Soviet units should be cheaper. The manpower drain has become enormous for the Soviets.
22 Apr 2014, 00:35 AM
#20
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

no cost reduction pls . i dont want the sov core infantry to become a cheap, crap and gimmicky unit. just look at rifles and volks. the balance was perfect. id love the same for coh2.
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