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russian armor

Germans Anti tank capabilities.

10 Dec 2013, 11:43 AM
#41
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 773

Sorry double post. Can this be deleted?
Thank you.
10 Dec 2013, 12:13 PM
#42
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425


@ post above:

Why don't you go whine somewhere else and give me a break will ya?
You start attacking and insulting people as per usual and then you will say they attacked you first.

I havent whined at all. Nor have I attacked or insulted anyone.

I provided Smokaz with data, and you with a constructive suggestion to improve the quality and accuracy of your posts.

Do some research first, before you post. Stats on these units are essily available. Whereas Smokazs mistake is understandable, because the complete stats of abilities are not currently catalogued anywhere.

Smokaz mistake is simply an innocent misunderstanding due to lack of available data.
Yours was just lazy. Spend some time studying the stats. That is all.
10 Dec 2013, 12:40 PM
#43
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 773

I don't need stats to know how the unit performs in battle. T-34/85 is close to SU-85 in that respect. The difference is one is a tank one is a tank destroyer. I suspected penetration will be higher on SU-85 as it's only logical. One could say I prefer practical input over pure theoretical one.
10 Dec 2013, 13:07 PM
#44
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 461


And you still left out the stug which is helpless with mark target on it, the only defining trait of the unit being it's good armor and MT denies that


Personally, I find using Mark Target against a StuG is a waste of ammo.

The Stug will die anyway against a single T34 if it is being flanked.
And in a frontal engagement Mark Target doesn't increase penetration, so the T34 can still lose.

Mark Target only increases slighty the chances for a T34 of winning a frontal engagement against a Stug. In all other cases, T34 wins crushingly with or without Mark Target.
10 Dec 2013, 13:33 PM
#45
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

I don't need stats to know how the unit performs in battle. T-34/85 is close to SU-85 in that respect. The difference is one is a tank one is a tank destroyer. I suspected penetration will be higher on SU-85 as it's only logical. One could say I prefer practical input over pure theoretical one.


Unbelievable. Even though Wooof already took time and effort to inform you, you STILL persist with your falsities.

There is nothing theoretical about stats. They are as concrete as you can get. Everything stems from them. The game is built on them.

If you want to be taken seriously in balance discussion, youn have to put the extra effort in yourself to research shit. Guys like Wooof are around to provide data (big thanks to them), when ASKED about them. Not to correct your bullshit due to your own laziness and sloppiness. You are wasting everyones time, including theirs, when you are simply too lazy to check yourself before posting.

As to your claim that "youndont need stats ro know how something performs in battle", well you already fell on your face on that one. You incorrectly assumed from your limited play that T34/85s equal SU85s. Goes to show that ESPECIALLY you, DO need to spend some time looking at stats.

Someone with an excellent playercard can argue from a practical position. You arent one of them. Neither am I. But Ive spent many hours looking over stats so that I have atleast an informed basis to argue fro . You have neither. Either start putting some effort in, or stfu and lurk.

Your playercard:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197996144532

You are in no position whatsover to argue from a purely "practical" perspective.
When I was criticized for lack of Sov play, guess what, I started playing Sov.
You lack 1v1 experience as Ost completely, and have only 9 games as Sov in 1v1, 0 as Ost.

Sorry, but you need to start putting some effort into your shit.
Either by properly learning unit stats and abilities, or by playing more.
Until then, you are frankly just a constant annoyance and disruptive to informed discussion. Put some effort into this, or stfu and lurk. As I already stated, many real posters just dont bother correcting or responding to your shit, because its so offbase and your reaction is so stubborn, that why bother.
10 Dec 2013, 14:03 PM
#46
avatar of Anarcy

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 13:33 PMNullist


Unbelievable. Even though Wooof already took time and effort to inform you, you STILL persist with your falsities.

There is nothing theoretical about stats. They are as concrete as you can get. Everything stems from them. The game is built on them.

If you want to be taken seriously in balance discussion, youn have to put the extra effort in yourself to research shit. Guys like Wooof are around to provide data (big thanks to them), when ASKED about them. Not to correct your bullshit due to your own laziness and sloppiness. You are wasting everyones time, including theirs, when you are simply too lazy to check yourself before posting.

As to your claim that "youndont need stats ro know how something performs in battle", well you already fell on your face on that one. You incorrectly assumed from your limited play that T34/85s equal SU85s. Goes to show that ESPECIALLY you, DO need to spend some time looking at stats.

Someone with an excellent playercard can argue from a practical position. You arent one of them. Neither am I. But Ive spent many hours looking over stats so that I have atleast an informed basis to argue fro . You have neither. Either start putting some effort in, or stfu and lurk.

Your playercard:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197996144532

You are in no position whatsover to argue from a purely "practical" perspective.
When I was criticized for lack of Sov play, guess what, I started playing Sov.
You lack 1v1 experience as Ost completely, and have only 9 games as Sov in 1v1, 0 as Ost.

Sorry, but you need to start putting some effort into your shit.
Either by properly learning unit stats and abilities, or by playing more.
Until then, you are frankly just a constant annoyance and disruptive to informed discussion. Put some effort into this, or stfu and lurk. As I already stated, many real posters just dont bother correcting or responding to your shit, because its so offbase and your reaction is so stubborn, that why bother.



Just a question, Nullist: Why did you remove your playercard?
10 Dec 2013, 14:09 PM
#47
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 14:03 PMAnarcy



Just a question, Nullist: Why did you remove your playercard?


I havent removed my playercard.
Its linked below my avatar and in my profile, per the new forum format.

Why isn't yours?
10 Dec 2013, 14:50 PM
#48
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 461

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 13:33 PMNullist

Sorry, but you need to start putting some effort into your shit.
Either by properly learning unit stats and abilities, or by playing more.
Until then, you are frankly just a constant annoyance and disruptive to informed discussion. Put some effort into this, or stfu and lurk. As I already stated, many real posters just dont bother correcting or responding to your shit, because its so offbase and your reaction is so stubborn, that why bother.


Nullist dude, you are nobody to order someone to shut up.
Even less if the only reason you have to do so is his playercard and game stats.
If you don't like his posts, just ignore them or answer politely, but not being a dick as you have always been. Because, frankly, the most "constant annoyance and disruptive" person in this forum are you.

I know that you must be a funny character for mods in this forum, because otherwise I don't understand how you hadn't been banned time ago.

Sorry for the bad language, but it pisses me off when someone who is nothing in this forum orders to shut up others.
10 Dec 2013, 14:51 PM
#49
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 14:50 PMGreeb
If you don't like his posts, just ignore them or answer politely, but not being a dick as you have always been.


Same to you.

And yet another guy with 2 1v1s and only 7 games total as Ost.

Play some 1v1 before you comment on baseline balance, and you too could definately do with taking some dedicated time to inform yourself on actual unit stats.

Im not surprised you react so incredibly violently, because frankly you fit the same category as does Oz.

Neither of you has any actual 1v1 experience, and even less actual stat knowledge.
When I was criticised for lacking Sov play, I started playing Sov.
Neither of you have put any effort into getting more informed or experienced.

Sorry, but no. Back off and stop derailing the thread further.
10 Dec 2013, 15:08 PM
#50
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 461

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 14:51 PMNullist


Same to you.

And yet another guy with 2 1v1s and only 7 games total as Ost.

Play some 1v1 before you comment on baseline balance, and you too could definately do with taking some dedicated time to inform yourself on actual unit stats.

Im not surprised you react so incredibly violently, because frankly you fit the same category as does Oz.

Neither of you has any actual 1v1 experience, and even less actual stat knowledge.
When I was criticised for lacking Sov play, I started playing Sov.
Neither of you have put any effort into getting more informed or experienced.

Sorry, but no. Back off and stop derailing the thread further.


I'm not going to play german because I don't like that faction gameplay. Understand?
I play for fun, not for trying to be a smartass in this forum like you, who only play as soviets to be able to bitch everyone here.

I consider myself a decent soviet player and I have YEARS of vCoH games in both factions (which you don't have) to consider myself entitled to talk about balance.

And do you know? Even if this was my first CoH game and I was ranked the last player in the whole world I would be equally entitled to talk about balance as you.
This is a fan forum, not the fucking beta secret balance team. If forum's administrators doesn't say otherwise EVERYBODY has the same right to talk and discuss independently of their number of games or stats. And if someone makes mistakes because this is a GAME, not a fucking college degree, you can POLITELY correct him.

So think twice before ordering someone to shut up and lurk, because you are nobody here, and your opinions doesn't have more weight than anyone's.

PD: Sorry if something doesn't make sense. English is not my first language and writing fast and pissed off is not a good thing for checking grammar.
10 Dec 2013, 18:48 PM
#51
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 773

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 13:33 PMNullist


Unbelievable. Even though Wooof already took time and effort to inform you, you STILL persist with your falsities.

There is nothing theoretical about stats. They are as concrete as you can get. Everything stems from them. The game is built on them.

If you want to be taken seriously in balance discussion, youn have to put the extra effort in yourself to research shit. Guys like Wooof are around to provide data (big thanks to them), when ASKED about them. Not to correct your bullshit due to your own laziness and sloppiness. You are wasting everyones time, including theirs, when you are simply too lazy to check yourself before posting.

As to your claim that "youndont need stats ro know how something performs in battle", well you already fell on your face on that one. You incorrectly assumed from your limited play that T34/85s equal SU85s. Goes to show that ESPECIALLY you, DO need to spend some time looking at stats.

Someone with an excellent playercard can argue from a practical position. You arent one of them. Neither am I. But Ive spent many hours looking over stats so that I have atleast an informed basis to argue fro . You have neither. Either start putting some effort in, or stfu and lurk.

Your playercard:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197996144532

You are in no position whatsover to argue from a purely "practical" perspective.
When I was criticized for lack of Sov play, guess what, I started playing Sov.
You lack 1v1 experience as Ost completely, and have only 9 games as Sov in 1v1, 0 as Ost.

Sorry, but you need to start putting some effort into your shit.
Either by properly learning unit stats and abilities, or by playing more.
Until then, you are frankly just a constant annoyance and disruptive to informed discussion. Put some effort into this, or stfu and lurk. As I already stated, many real posters just dont bother correcting or responding to your shit, because its so offbase and your reaction is so stubborn, that why bother.


Wow, now that's an angry rant.
All I've said is that I prefer practical experience over theoretical one.

Are you really going to argue that knowing the stats of the unit is more important and valuable than knowing how to use the unit in practice?

I don't need to know the stats of T-34/85 to know that its performance is close to SU-85. I've noticed penetration difference while using the unit. I don't need to know exact number to see it's lower. I OBSERVED this while using the unit.

Now regarding my player card. I played 1v1 in CoH. Now I play 2v2 cos I mostly with my mates but let me tell you something, I'm positioned somewhere around 2000 on the ladder after about 200 games you're 66000 after 120 or something with your Germans I don't thing you have any rights to question my skill whatsoever.
10 Dec 2013, 18:57 PM
#52
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

I recommend to both of you, go and spend some time looking at the actual stats of units.
Ask if you have questions, there is no shame in that and many will he glad to answer.

I can provide you with a fairly comprehensive list of stats sites if you so wish.

Also, play some more 1v1s, which is the baseline of balance discussion of it, and also I suggest that you deliberately play some more Ost.

I was told to play Sov, and I did and am. Although it hasnt changed my views much, it has made me more aware of what Sov play is like.

I understand you prefer team matches, but that is a different game to 1v1 in many ways, and really you should try to differentiate between the two instead of generalising.
10 Dec 2013, 19:19 PM
#53
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

I recommend that no one builds stugs. They are way overpriced now that they renerfed its target size. Terrible terrible unit.
10 Dec 2013, 23:43 PM
#54
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 773

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2013, 18:57 PMNullist
I recommend to both of you, go and spend some time looking at the actual stats of units.
Ask if you have questions, there is no shame in that and many will he glad to answer.

I can provide you with a fairly comprehensive list of stats sites if you so wish.

Also, play some more 1v1s, which is the baseline of balance discussion of it, and also I suggest that you deliberately play some more Ost.

I was told to play Sov, and I did and am. Although it hasnt changed my views much, it has made me more aware of what Sov play is like.

I understand you prefer team matches, but that is a different game to 1v1 in many ways, and really you should try to differentiate between the two instead of generalising.


Hmm I could swear you post looked very much different first time I saw it.

Never mind. I would recommend you to stop rely purely on stats and more often try to gain experience by using the unit in game as this is much better and efficient way o learning. Not to mention that comparing units by comparing their stats means that you are compering these units in vacuum and as many have said on this forum can give false representation or wrong overall balance impression in general. Sometimes something look good on paper but in reality its completely different besides CoH2 is not that complex in terms of its mechanics and rely very much almost purely on rng. Besides I found out that meeting with my mate in game and testing things out by ourselves works the best.

As I said I played 1v1 in CoH almost exclusively and I know the difference between these two modes. I can differentiate between them and saw potential issues for both of these modes. CoH2 is not the first RTS I played so I am rather experienced in this genre.


Also on the topic I would say that in general Germans Anti Tank capabilities are far better then Soviets. Especially in terms of vehicles but even if you compare both AT infantry units.
10 Dec 2013, 23:54 PM
#55
avatar of Lynskey
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 175

Stop slapfighting pls
11 Dec 2013, 00:29 AM
#56
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 751

Stugs are a great cheap anti-tank unit imo.
11 Dec 2013, 00:56 AM
#57
avatar of Charlie Dont Surf

Posts: 537

Exactly Ivan, the reason stugs are so bad ass, is because they are cheap on fuel.

Against these kind of 34/85 strats, people need stugs, maybe a P4, and paks, play defensive, the paks are key. As your tanks edge backwards, the paks can stun.

11 Dec 2013, 01:23 AM
#58
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 389

StuGs are especially good when they get vet and use their ability. Apparently it's an incredibly long stun.

StuGs fire fast, have decent scatter and AoE as well.
11 Dec 2013, 01:56 AM
#59
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 461

Stugs are a good counter for T3 soviet units. I don't know why I don't see more ingame.
11 Dec 2013, 10:18 AM
#60
avatar of Charlie Dont Surf

Posts: 537

Against this guard motor 34/85 spam, lots of stugs and paks is tricky to face, because you lack indirect fire, unless you call a 120mm mortar.. Which is at least forcing them to change strategy a bit.

No katys, off map or on map arty.

The only natural way to deal with the paks would be infantry, but as in every game pop plays, your inf takes a real beating as you wait for 4CP, and German tends to be left with inf advantage of several vetted grens.

That inf advantage is blown out of the water by the 34/85s.. But not if you protected your inf advantage with paks and stugs. the 85s are I only dangerous when they charge in, and you can stun and keep stugs at range. Not to mention fausts.
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