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In defense of COH2 (sort of)

26 Nov 2013, 14:16 PM
#1
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 649

I really only have one overarching observation.

COH1 is stressful as hell. It's chess in an RTS. Manpower bleed is really weird - it hurts, but if you have resources, it's possible to still come back with good micro or the right unit at the right time. Whereas in COH2 if you lose squads, it's really not a big deal at all. In COH2 lack of manpower bleed from upkeep means you can spam 6 conscripts and reinforce all of them and still tech. Wow, the couple COH1 games I just played I was actually forced to make some REAL choices after I took some heavy rifle MP damage. Really, manpower needs to become an ACTUAL resource. Indeed every resource seems much less ample. Tossing a nade now will mean no M8 gunner, that sort of thing. Generally I think every muni ability infantry have ought to have a higher cost in COH2. Where are the tough choices? But this does make COH2 a lot less stressful.

COH1 has an incredible slippery slope. You lose a sniper midgame, you're in trouble. Sometimes you rebuild it. The other guy then lost his bike I baited into a mine, he didn't rebuild. My second sniper was able to go to work because he didn't have one - should my opponent have rebuilt? I dunno, there were a lot of things he could have done.

And woah..MGs. I forgot what the MG42 is supposed to be like. I forgot how hard it was to actually flank a good player in COH1. Instant suppression 3/4ths of a screen away? Yes please. But I see why they've weakened the MG42 so much...With that much power in a game where manpower is much more ample, that much MG42 power just makes Ostheer way too potent. And indeed it was a month ago.

All that said COH1 doesn't seem to be quite as fun...It's like a puzzle, move this here, micro that correctly, is the sniper on hold fire...To me it's now a series of annoying complicated mechanics. And because manpower is SO crucial in COH1, everyone fights extremely conservatively, which basically makes the game pretty dull to play. It's chess to COH2s...checkers? Not quite, but something between the two. Intellectual interesting, really great game? Sure. A roaring good time? Not so much. The last game I just played in COH1 I was forcing myself to breathe, I was concentrating so hard...











26 Nov 2013, 14:39 PM
#2
avatar of HS King

Posts: 249

I agree with you until you reach your conclusion. Its not any less fun IMO but it can be a hell of a lot more stressful if you are playing a competitive game but thats because its got more depth and you can control more variables
26 Nov 2013, 14:56 PM
#3
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 493

CoH2 has stupid commander DLCs that frustate me and makes me feel that I have an incomplete game and that I can't be competitive without them.

And that will continue till the last of us decide that the game doesn't deserve a single euro/dolar/pound more.

Sorry, I can't defend this game anymore.
Lately I've been oddly rejoiced seeing how the number of players is decreasing even more.
This game deserves to die fast and serve as example of how greediness kills your playerbase and pisses your customers.



26 Nov 2013, 15:06 PM
#4
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 649

I don't know. There ought to be a place for a casual RTS, COH2 seems to want to be it. Age of Empires lasted a while right? That's fine, but Relic has got to stop underestimating people's gullibility. No, guys, even the casual 4v4 players are not buying something to counter something else. We're not that stupid.

Hint: when scamming people, try to hide the actual scam bit, eh.

COH1 is something else though. You really need to just quit for a while and come back to see how impressive it is compared to any other strategy game out there, ever.




26 Nov 2013, 15:14 PM
#5
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 493

No, guys, even the casual 4v4 players are not buying something to counter something else. We're not that stupid.


Yes, we are.

In all the games I played these last weeks, there was ALWAYS a player (usually all of them) that had in their rooster one of the new commanders.

I have lost hope. This game is doomed and we will have DLCs till the last of us gives up the game.
26 Nov 2013, 15:14 PM
#6
avatar of MyMe

Posts: 20

This game is a blast. I never played COH1, but I really enjoy this game, and i'm glad to see it still being supported with balance and new content. It isn't perfect by any means (I had my first experience with Vet buying spam in a 3v3 yesterday, and it's truly BS to have everything against me vet 3 by the time one of my conscripts hit vet 1...), but I still play it because it's a good game. I only hope that the balance team keeps up their hard work and irons out little things that make a fun game aggravating sometimes.
26 Nov 2013, 15:42 PM
#7
avatar of PaperPlane

Posts: 173

I think the word you're looking for is depth.
26 Nov 2013, 15:43 PM
#8
avatar of Le Wish
Lead Artist Badge

Posts: 742

I really enjoy this game more than CoH1, of the reasons Sluz mentioned. I hated being bikepushed, if I lost a squad early it was insta gg because it was so hard to get back into the fight. Many games ended to fast and it was stressful. Im over 30 and not getting any younger. CoH2 still offers intense games and even if losing a squad in this game isnt that horrible, it can still hurt.

I am more of a casual player, my stats could prove that. I also have no problem buying all the commanders relic spits out, just because its fun to test. Im not saying CoH1 is a better or worse game. Its just diffrent. And Im having more fun with CoH2 than CoH1 tbh.
26 Nov 2013, 16:52 PM
#9
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 304

I like this game because of great graphic, I always wanted a game similar to this. I am a big fan of WW2, i was born and raised in Eastern Europe and when i lived there I always had a chance to visit places where great battles took place. Believe it or not but there is a real ww2 mg bunker in the backyard of my parents summer house near Minsk!!!
I just couldn't wait for this game to be released on June, 25th and I really loved CoH2 since day 1 despite poorly designed awful single player campaigns, balance issues and such.
Recent DLC commanders are totally bullshit and they ruin my game experience. What's up with this stupid "buy veterancy" crap? And free super duper tank??? Take it away from the game please! Every time I see vet 3 gren squad running against my vet1 consqript I quit. Bullcrap. Unreal. Not fair. I'm thinking of starting playing something else.
26 Nov 2013, 20:37 PM
#10
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 549

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2013, 16:52 PMtokarev
I like this game because of great graphic, I always wanted a game similar to this. I am a big fan of WW2, i was born and raised in Eastern Europe and when i lived there I always had a chance to visit places where great battles took place. Believe it or not but there is a real ww2 mg bunker in the backyard of my parents summer house near Minsk!!!
I just couldn't wait for this game to be released on June, 25th and I really loved CoH2 since day 1 despite poorly designed awful single player campaigns, balance issues and such.
Recent DLC commanders are totally bullshit and they ruin my game experience. What's up with this stupid "buy veterancy" crap? And free super duper tank??? Take it away from the game please! Every time I see vet 3 gren squad running against my vet1 consqript I quit. Bullcrap. Unreal. Not fair. I'm thinking of starting playing something else.


TBH, Sov Industry is even worse. Still, there are ways of dealing with vet 3 grens like snipers or mortars, anything that picks them off one by one helps. Remember that Ost will almost always have less units than you.

But yeah, its pretty bullshit that they have a buisness model like this.
26 Nov 2013, 22:56 PM
#11
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 367

I really only have one overarching observation.

COH1 is stressful as hell. It's chess in an RTS.

All that said COH1 doesn't seem to be quite as fun...It's like a puzzle, move this here, micro that correctly, is the sniper on hold fire...To me it's now a series of annoying complicated mechanics. And because manpower is SO crucial in COH1, everyone fights extremely conservatively, which basically makes the game pretty dull to play. It's chess to COH2s...checkers? Not quite, but something between the two. Intellectual interesting, really great game? Sure. A roaring good time? Not so much. The last game I just played in COH1 I was forcing myself to breathe, I was concentrating so hard...














I find coh2 more stressful.

With the price of at guns and long build times, high fuel costs of tanks,inability of mg42s to deal with more than one squad, even from the direct front, the time and resources it takes to get a 6 man mg out of a building, the necessity of being prepared to deal with wtf kill machines at every stage of the game.

Imagine instead of being pushed around by a bike/jeep you were being pushed around by flaming pios in a rolling suit of armor, 45 secs into the game. And then a stug that could outrange even your heaviest armor, and could just reverse away while you chased it. A call in p4 with a flame turret roasting full squads in 2 secs, even on retreat. And then having a at gun that cost as much manpower as tanks but misses more than it hits plus having exceptionally horrid pathing.
26 Nov 2013, 23:35 PM
#12
avatar of nwglfls

Posts: 140

i just dont get it, if you want more depth,just go play Hearts of Iron, why ppl call Vcoh is a depth game, just few squads and few vehicles all the time, Vcoh is boring, always dat three commanders all the time,what makes Vcoh still popular is because its rank system,ppl always like to fight each other and show off, that is nature, Coh2 is joke, Vcoh is joke as well, however, most of ppl think it is not coz Coh2 is worse, Relic definitely find some new way to make relatively new game,u guys except whining is not doing too much good, you know what? we will see how Coh2 goes in 5 years
26 Nov 2013, 23:46 PM
#13
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 579

Paradox knows how to make a good damn game.
26 Nov 2013, 23:49 PM
#14
avatar of ludd3emm

Posts: 108

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2013, 23:35 PMnwglfls
i just dont get it, if you want more depth,just go play Hearts of Iron, why ppl call Vcoh is a depth game, just few squads and few vehicles all the time, Vcoh is boring, always dat three commanders all the time,what makes Vcoh still popular is because its rank system,ppl always like to fight each other and show off, that is nature, Coh2 is joke, Vcoh is joke as well, however, most of ppl think it is not coz Coh2 is worse, Relic definitely find some new way to make relatively new game,u guys except whining is not doing too much good, you know what? we will see how Coh2 goes in 5 years


Are you Zomgattack in Relics stream?

Yeah, we will definitly see if this game is as popular as vCoH in 5 years from now. I bet my money on that it's not. vCoH was ahead of time, CoH2 is behind. We didn't even have chat rooms up until "Turning Point" and they still SUCK.

We don't have a spectator mode, the replay mode is a worse version of vCoHs. Man, you can't even see the in game conversation anymore while watching a replay. You got disconnected from a game because of whatever reason? Don't worry, that'll count as a loss since there is no way to reconnect to the game. CoH2 miss a lot of features that is worthy of a modern game released in 2013. Despite Relics disgusting business modell we're not seeing any more of these features that we don't just want, we NEED them in order for us to help the game grow. Selling DLC stuff should help Relic developing the game further, not just spend some of it to develop new commanders and put the rest on a bank account.
27 Nov 2013, 07:44 AM
#15
avatar of HS King

Posts: 249

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2013, 23:35 PMnwglfls
i just dont get it, if you want more depth,just go play Hearts of Iron, why ppl call Vcoh is a depth game, just few squads and few vehicles all the time, Vcoh is boring, always dat three commanders all the time,what makes Vcoh still popular is because its rank system,ppl always like to fight each other and show off, that is nature, Coh2 is joke, Vcoh is joke as well, however, most of ppl think it is not coz Coh2 is worse, Relic definitely find some new way to make relatively new game,u guys except whining is not doing too much good, you know what? we will see how Coh2 goes in 5 years


No offense but you have no idea about coh
27 Nov 2013, 08:27 AM
#16
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 234

Coh 2 is a great game people will realize it soon it enough it will easily outdo coh1 soon enough. Pay no mind to all the whiners and naysayers that cannot except change and made coh1 their source of self worth.
27 Nov 2013, 10:06 AM
#17
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 513

Paradox knows how to make a good damn game.


...and they also outclass Relic in their ability to offend and insult their customers.

If Relic gave the same feed-back to players that Paradox does, half the posters on this forum would have been kicked in the face by people like Johan.
27 Nov 2013, 12:13 PM
#18
avatar of kafrion

Posts: 297



...and they also outclass Relic in their ability to offend and insult their customers.

If Relic gave the same feed-back to players that Paradox does, half the posters on this forum would have been kicked in the face by people like Johan.


i would love the devs to come in here and talk with us even if they have an innapropriate attitude , what i hate is scarce appearences and empty promises .
27 Nov 2013, 16:10 PM
#19
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Peoples attitude here is far better than on official forums.

If they can't see that, that is their problem.

Use it or lose it.
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